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Pre Purchase Inspection

5K views 13 replies 11 participants last post by  AllesklarBMW 
#1 ·
Hello all, longtime lurker, first post. I've been lusting after an E39 M5 since they were unleashed upon the world, now finally ready to be serious about it.

I've been reading voraciously and feel there isn't anything to keep me from owning an M5. I have a second car I'll keep for winters and the inevitable (hopefully rare) downtimes.

SO I've been eyeballing a specific car for awhile. Its a very early production MY2000 (Sept 1999, #156), Titanium over silverstone sport interior. Only factory options I think are there are the trunk spoiler and rear sunshades. 75k miles, garage/dealer has installed a Dinan exhaust, CAI w/ECU flash, new clutch and replaced the OEM wheels with new replacements (if they're reps they're very good ones, M logo in recessed notch and the little ring around the valve stems, can't see the backs for the BMW stamp) with Michelin Pilots, installed a carbon fiber front splitter and sent the cluster out for repixelation. Body and interior are a bit rough cosmetically but panel gaps are perfect, lines are all straight. Aftermarket radar detector built in. Overall the car looks great, needs some freshening and a good scrubbing and buffing. Driver's side seat outer bolster shows signs of significant wear, but no tears at all, maybe just a redye would take care of it, back seats looks to have hardly ever been sat in. Shift knob and handbrake handle show wear as well. Mechanic says third gear will crunch/grind a bit if you're racing it, but its unnoticable under normal spiritied driving. I have not yet driven the car as I didn't want to fall in love before I could take it home.

I've called BMW for a service report and they won't print one for me, citing customer privacy, but the guy did tell me he saw very little in the way of any service history with BMW at all but what he did see was routing maintenance ad not clutches and engine replacements.

Started it up, sounded great, no VANOS noise at all when cold or after idling for about 5-10 minutes.

So I'm planning on pulling a carfax, to at least verify that the mileage hasn't been tampered with when he sent it out, or that he didn't swap out the ECU when he installed the CAI and flashed the programming. I can check the VIN on the motor to see that it matches the car and obviously road test it before I decide if I'm going to take it home. Any thoughts on other things to check? A dealer PPI isn't possible as its located at least 30 minutes from a dealer.

One big hesitation is the car has been there for about 4 years now...the guy doesn't advertise and for awhile it was at $20k, but now its 15 and its been staring at me every time I drive by, begging me to take it home and give it love. Its easy to chalk the longevity to the fact that hes just out of the way and even though its been right there, it doesn't have a for sale sign and it kind of gets lost on the lot with other cars that frankly also tend to sit. Could be the guy is shady and I should stay away, could be I've got a jewel in the rough and its my lucky 2016.

Thoughts? Trying to think it through and not let my emotions dictate the purchase...maybe overthinking it. Input is much appreciated. Some photos are attached.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Definitely get a PPI.

ANY car that has been sitting out in the elements for that long is going to need some attention. Lots of rubber that deteriorates. I would expect have to replace most of the suspension components (shocks/springs, thrust arms, control arms, tie rods, center link, rear ball joints, integral links, etc). Probably also needs diff bushings, guibo and center bearing. A grinding gear would be a major concern. These transmissions are not rebuildable (I have read of one user getting this done). Those that have had transmission failures will purchase a used transmission from Clemster. You'd have to ask him for ballpark pricing on a used transmission.

Search the VIN on this forum as well. You may get some hits.

Wheels appear to be OEM Style 65, not reps. One of the tell-tale signs of reps is the thinner spoke (tunign fork looking spoke) is slightly curved on real Style 65s and straight on reps. From your picture, those appear to have the curve.


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#3 ·
Did you drive the car? Or just started it up? If you drove it, how did it feel?? This is definitely not a turn key car in a sense to just drive it for many years to come without anything to fix. So you can probably negotiate the price down a bit more? If the car drives well and PPI is acceptable, get it! The car still got tons of miles to enjoy!!
 
#4 ·
Didn't have the chance to drive it. I was short on time and honestly I didn't want to fall in love before the time was right to be able to make an offer and take it home.

The car hasn't sat idle for years though, the garage owner has used it on occasion, presumably because a) its a hell of a fun car and b) he knows a car needs to be run and used in order to stay viable. He's put about 5k miles on it in the last few years, since he put the clutch in and did the mods and wheels/tires. Its had the oil changed with the right stuff at least twice that I know of from a quick conversation with him, I'm making an assumption that he has lubed it where necessary as well. I did find out he's a former BMW mechanic, for whatever value that has.

A dealer PPI just isn't possible for this car unfortunately. Its just too far out of the way to be able to have it done.
 
#5 ·
Lol... I feel you on the no test drive. No other decent mechanic in the area? If there is, take it there. I honestly bought mine without a PPI... Car drove tight and engine sounded good... Those cars rarely come trouble free unless you have money and can buy from Enthusiast Auto Group.

Can you ask him to put it on a lift for you at his location?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Hop in it, drive it, fall in love with "her", offer them 12.5, buy it and get prepared for a lot of wrench turning because at 16 years old I can guarantee the timing chain guide plastic is beyond service life, regardless of mileage. (I got a smoking deal on my kit from FCPeuro and no, I don't work for the company). Amongst many other things. If you do all the work yourself it's really satisfying to know you're driving a "Supercar" daily and when you hear noises you know what they are and can address them.


Who cares about the exterior or interior or rims, you want it to be reliable prior to worrying about cosmetics, the beautiful part can take time, the mechanics can't.
 
#7 ·
I would never buy a used car that has not had a PPI, especially a car like this. If you're a serious buyer then offer the guy a (refundable!) deposit and arrange a proper PPI at a dealer or other place of your choice. If he's a reputable seller he won't object to this request. As others have said, things deteriorate due to age and this car is now approaching 17 years old with that production date so you're going to spend a few thousand 'refreshing' things like suspension components, seals, fluids, etc. - best to know what you're getting yourself into ahead of time and base your decision on the outcome of your PPI.

In my experience vehicles not cared for cosmetically do not tend to have been meticulously maintained in their past. The condition of that interior scares me with only 75k on the clock and I would be worried it's indicative of what else is lurking underneath the hood...but I'm a worrier like that :eek:
 
#8 ·
All good advice.

Check out the reputation of the dealer. Google is a wonderful search tool. Plug in the VIN not just here, but on google also.

3rd gear grind is troublesome. There are no rebuild parts out there. If bad tranny, budget $3000 for a (hopefully) good used one (contact board member Clemster). Save the old tranny for parts.

Drive the car. Don't worry about falling in love (you will), but it is the best way to tell how you think it drives; after all, you are the one who is going to be behind the wheel if you purchase. Get a professional PPI. They won't find everything, but a good BMW mechanic who knows the E39 M5 will spot most items and hopefully the big ones. Little ones like leaking valve cover gasket, bad thermostat (the temp doesn't stay at operating temps on cool days on the highway or throws a Code 69 on the Peake code reader) are more bargaining chips. Any 16 year will need a few things as noted above.

If the little things check out (minor wear on one bolster, interior matches mileage claimed, built in radar, by enthusiast or at least a person with $$$ to spend on maintenance) the bigger things can be spotted by the professional.

BTW, I don't believe motors have "VIN" numbers, although they may have block numbers. I think under intake manifold (someone here will know, I think it has been discussed), but a replacement motor would not bother me at all since motors made before 03/00 tend to have higher oil consumption (different piston ring design after that date) and noiseier VANOs system unless updates were done. A newer motor would also have less miles than indicated on the odo.

Good luck!

Regards,
Jerry
 
#9 ·
To be honest - at that price, I'd pass on this one. The early build date is not an advantage by any means and the interior looks pretty rough for only 75K miles, which makes me question how well the car was taken care of in general? Add in 4 years of "lot rot" and forget it - I'd expect this car to be a maintenance & repair nightmare. You can also look at it this way - there's a reason he's had it for 4 years and lack of advertising isn't it.

$15K-ish can buy a well-sorted example with a few more miles. Keep an eye on the boards and buy one from an enthusiast who has probably dumped tons of money in preventive maintenance for you. Try to judge based on condition moreso than mileage and you'll be better off. Best of Luck!
 
#10 ·
A $200 PPI will tell you a lot about the true condition. Give you the opportunity to see under the car for missing items like splash guards, jack supports etc. missing these could point to abusive owner. (Except in my case where the mechanic "lost them")
Interior is sketchy at best. The sport interior is well wearing and shouldn't look like that with 75k miles. I wear jeans all the time, have 90k miles and my seats are mint.
MY2000 unless you LOVE the looks or don't mind the navigation a 2001-03 is a better bet. If your planning on updating later, that's $2k in lighting and navigation
 
#11 ·
Lots of great advice here guys, thank you very much.

Interior is sketchy at best. The sport interior is well wearing and shouldn't look like that with 75k miles. I wear jeans all the time, have 90k miles and my seats are mint.
MY2000 unless you LOVE the looks or don't mind the navigation a 2001-03 is a better bet. If your planning on updating later, that's $2k in lighting and navigation
I think if I'm sitting here being honest with myself I realize that this particular car isn't the right one for me. I've almost always been a bought what I found kind of guy but for a car like an M5 where I'm putting out a lot of money for an older car, I really ought to be picky and find MY car, not the car that I've come across. I do want the facelift upgrades like lighting, M Audio and 16:9, so I ought to be looking for an 01-03 instead...and I'm not crazy about titanium either, prefer a darker color like carbon, anthracite or ILB.
 
#12 ·
That interior is pure garbage. There is no other way to word it. Skip the car.
 
#13 ·
I have to agree with several of the other posters - the E39 M5 is a fantastic car - IMO one of the best values out there today in terms of car for your dollar. You just can't get anything similar at this price point. That being said - a PPI is an absolute requirement on these cars. There are many complex electronic and mechanical systems and too many expensive repair possibilities to venture in without a very strong understanding of the mechanical condition of the car. The transmission grinding is an immediate red flag that you would want someone who knows these cars to check out. When I investigated a rebuild on my M5 transmission - it was $6000 - and there was only one shop (in the country) that I could find that was experienced with rebuilding them.
 
#14 ·
Knowing what I know now of the e39 M5...I'd get a PPI w/o question.


I opted to forgo a PPI on my 32' SeaRay (dual 454s) I bought and my M5 and in both cases I paid afterwards.


Didn't regret either purchase really, but likely would have had second thoughts knowing issues up front.


An M5 can get $$$ real fast, even if you are doing the work yourself in some cases.


That said...the way my M5 sits right now (knock on woody) it is sublime to drive. If I upgrade the NAV unit to Bluetooth and put stiffer coilovers on, it'll be spot on.


That all said...that leather bolstering look very worn for 75k miles, no?
 
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