BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

for folks looking to replace the E39 M5 with one of the newer crop of BMW's

9K views 84 replies 26 participants last post by  Jabberwocky 
#1 ·
#2 ·
This is a sad-but-true article. People really don't want to enjoy driving anymore. It's become a burden to their "mainstream" customers who lease for the image. It shows why after 36 months, the interiors of anything > 2004 are literally peeling apart, rattles and creaks are un-fixable, etc.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Owing three post 2004 E9x products, this is anything but the truth in my experience. My wife's E90 we've had since new 10.5 years ago, 140k miles now, has essentially zero creaks or rattles. The car has been amazing...I've been a BMW fan since 1971, driving them since 1974, and the E90 is by far the most reliable and well-built of all the ones I've owned over the past 40 years. My E90 M3 will be six in November, and it's completely silent also not to mention it hasn't had one single issue since it was new (zero need for the warranty which was far from the case with my E39 M5).
 
#4 ·
The thing is, they screwed up none M lineup but they are also screwing the M lineup... This is so wrong!
A car produces 560 hp can easily rock a hydraulic steering system. Who cares if it takes even 20 hp!! The M line should never move away from BMW's philosophy... They don't want to listen... Money talks.
 
#13 ·
It's Worse Than You Think

In a search a better CAFE, BMW introduced 'sail/cruise' mode for vehicles with automatic transmissions beginning in 2014. It's only supposed to be active in the Eco Pro setting. At cruising speeds between 30 and 100 mph, if you take your foot off the accelerator the engine decouples from the transmission and you coast.

My F10 has exhibited this phenomenon since mid-April of this year and it's destroyed the driving experience. It also disengages after manually downshifting. This was confirmed by independent instrumented road tests. BMW of Manhattan says this is normal behavior.

I'm puzzled why no other F10 owners with DCT aren't complaining. As this sail/cruise mode was intended for automatics, why am I now seeing this only recently on my F10 M5 DCT? I was happy with the DCT as an alternate to a manual transmission but no longer given the crappy driving experience.

I will be doing more, research this weekend.
 
#30 ·
In a search a better CAFE, BMW introduced 'sail/cruise' mode for vehicles with automatic transmissions beginning in 2014. It's only supposed to be active in the Eco Pro setting. At cruising speeds between 30 and 100 mph, if you take your foot off the accelerator the engine decouples from the transmission and you coast.

My F10 has exhibited this phenomenon since mid-April of this year and it's destroyed the driving experience. It also disengages after manually downshifting. This was confirmed by independent instrumented road tests. BMW of Manhattan says this is normal behavior.

I'm puzzled why no other F10 owners with DCT aren't complaining. As this sail/cruise mode was intended for automatics, why am I now seeing this only recently on my F10 M5 DCT? I was happy with the DCT as an alternate to a manual transmission but no longer given the crappy driving experience.

I will be doing more, research this weekend.
Ray, any update? I wonder if this is the result of some BMW s/w update? That's insane but it wouldn't be surprising if it's now "normal behavior" and the vast majority of owners, er lessee's, don't even notice.

Chuck
 
#16 ·
When my 14 f13 650i was totaled I went back to an e39 m5. I really loved the looks of the 650 and how luxurious the interior was But I wanted a car I could feel when I drive it something with a soul . The new bmws feel like your driving in a video game everything from the fake sound to the dead steering, they are a total disappointment.
 
#17 ·
The E39 M5 steering setup is one of the best I've ever felt. Sure it's recirculating ball but with the electronically adjustable assist levels it's quite awesome at low speeds for parking lot maneuvers, and the sport button tightens everything up for high-speed handling. I'm going to install an M5 steering box into my 540i in the future, because I've been spoiled by the M5 steering feel.
 
#18 ·




Interesting read

this part struck me:
Kistler responded: “Translated to German, the English word ‘feedback’ encompasses the car’s precision, how quickly it responds, basically everything the car does. It’s a large cake, while what you’re addressing is one thin, specific slice. “My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”
It is astonishing this is a surprise to this guy. Maybe he was just towing the corporate line? It does seem like he was qenuinely surpirsed about the M feedback- as if they have 'dailed up' the force/effort variable on the M line compared to the rest of the 'unwash masses models'...yet he was still suprised and confuised when they complained about lack of feedback/connection.

Our 12 X5 diesel is a beast on steering. Had an F15 loaner for 2 day and it was horrnedously skittish.

Car design by user survey... :(
 
#19 · (Edited)
After driving 300,000+ miles in three different generations of 3 pedaled m5s, the comments by Kistler reaffirmed my belief that BMW and ///Marketing have moved away from what I found appealing in the ///Motorsport brand 30 years ago.

I'd hate to know what Kistler would think about driving any ///m car fitted with monoballs. My balls(mono) might hurt his delicate hands.

Look at the popularity of all the airstrip events. Modern BMW///Marketing cars are perfect point and squirt cars. Anyone with a right foot and flappy paddles can right-foot-down their way in a straight line. No apex, no problem. Numb steering and turn-in initiation -- who needs it. I want autopilot, so I can watch movies as I drive.

BTW...the interior my e60 is 10/10 after 100,000+ miles as my daily driver and track toy. No peeling...nothing.
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Oh boy...I probably shouldn't dip my toe into the cold waters here, but what the heck. I'm among friends!

When I bought my E39 M5 almost 12 years ago, my plan was to drive it for 10 years and then see. 10 years went by and there was nothing else I wanted along the way (in terms of a DD). My car is approaching 100K miles (97K currently) and 100K miles was my other stop point (not rational, just my plans). I read all the hate for new BMWs and new Ms and decided to find out for myself. I really wanted to do euro delivery wth my family and for a variety of personal reasons this year worked out well, so I went for it and ordered a manual F80 M3.

I'm a diehard old-school BMW fan (never had an automatic transmission, indignant about electronic steering etc.). I really enjoyed the F80 during my time in Germany. Sure, the glow of the delivery experience (highly recommended, I will definitely be doing it again) likely colored my impressions. When I finally take re-delivery of the F80 (hopefully in the next few weeks) I really look forward to some back-to-back comparisons with the E39. I'll be honest...it is just I car, and I'm not marrying it.:)

For what it is worth, over my long-term ownerships of both the E39 M5 and the Z4M coupe, both have been extremely reliable.

Maybe I shouldn't leave these here, but I miss her...





 
#31 · (Edited)
Maybe I shouldn't leave these here, but I miss her...
Once again, a superb color combo. I'm already picturing a sunset time of day picture shoot with the F80 and M5 there in AZ...

I'd like to see that interior with a LeMans Blue and an Imola Red F80 too. I wonder if BMW will/can take special requests to paint an F80 in one of those two colors?
 
  • Like
Reactions: KevinM
#21 · (Edited)
I'm wondering what you'll think of the F80 in your daily use Kevin. I know comparing my M5 to my E90 M3, if I just focus on comfort, the M5 is like a limo vs the M3 (and this is with the M5 on Dinan springs/Konis/sway bar/monoballs/rears up front while the M3 is stock except for a Dinan front sway bar). The M3 is supple for sure but much firmer in all regards than my M5, not just damping to spring rate but bushings including subframe mount bushings, etc. If you have some fun roads on your commute, I would think you'll love the F80 every day, but if it's a poor condition road heavy traffic commute...

I'm guessing you're going to really enjoy the F80. :)

Regards,
Chuck
 
  • Like
Reactions: KevinM and gsfent
#22 ·
Yes, I have a fairly easy commute, 10 miles each way. Not too much traffic (leave before/after rush hour), some twisty roads near my home. Roads are pretty good. We'll see, but I am hopeful!
 
#25 ·
No 3 pedal manual. :(

Regards,
Jerry
 
  • Like
Reactions: herrubermensch
#32 ·
So we've established that BMW just don't make them like they used to. If your E39 M5 bites the dust and you don't want another restoration project, what are your options for something new, solid and fast? 981?
Fixed for you!! :)


The newest Boxsters/Caymans (718) actually handle even better, much improved EPS, but the sound of the 4 cylinder is disappointing compared to the flat 6 (until someone develops an aftermarket fix, unless the P engineers beat them to it) and there is just still a bit of turbo lag at lower rpm. It has a true manual 6 speed.

Give Porsche a couple more years if you want a car with "feel" and you don't need 4 doors.

Right now, there is NOTHING in the new BMW stable I would even look at other than the F80 M3. Sad.... :(

Regards,
Jerry
 
#28 ·
I don't get it. If you want "feel" then drive the '71 911. If I want feel and go a little faster that's what the '74 911S is for, if you want to feel nostalgic while going stupid fast drive a '95 540i that's supercharged. If you want to "feel" good about most anything drive a '01 M5. If you want to drive a sofa drive a Suburban. And if you "feel" the need to go get parts for the aforementioned drive the S - 10. guess that's about as needy I get for "feel".
 
#29 ·
Or a C7. But I hear those motors are having teething problems. I would go 991. But really it's not the same thing as an M5 which is a sleeper drivers sedan. F80 M3 is the only real choice in a 4 door. Some of us still want / need / prefer a 4 door sedan as the DD. It's really the best solution for me. Although these days I could get away with a coupe with folding seats like an M4 most of the time. But if I went that route I would have to swap the mid sized 2 door pickup for a SUV or get some other 4 door sedan. So for me the M5 or a newer M3 sedan is the only viable option that doesn't otherwise burn up stable slots or require other config swaps.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#35 ·
Bob Lutz on the current state of BMW

Dear Bob,

Do you think BMW is going the way of the bean counters nowadays with the introduction [not in the U.S.] of the front-wheel-drive 2-series and soon-to-be-released 1-series?Rafael Akopyan Havana, Cuba

BMW has ceased to be a company designing responsive, sporting cars for enthusiasts. It has gone mainstream, which, from a shareholder's perspective, has been a good move. The brand is greatly respected, and BMW earned that respect. Most BMW buyers today pay a monthly lease and have no idea why they bought the brand, other than that it enjoys instant recognition and respect among the owner's peers. Taut ride, superb handling, sharp steering, and symphonic-quality engine sound have mostly fallen by the wayside; today's BMW customer neither notices nor cares. Front-wheel drive, minivans, small pickups—all toxic to the original owner base—are possible and will/would sell just fine.
For those that don't know, Bob Lutz was one of the driving forces in the formation of the M division, as well as being responsible for many of the best cars of the last 40+ years, from a huge range of companies.
 
#36 ·
I've been contemplating a 991 which so far has good resale value and of course rear seats. I just can't get over their decision for a seven speed as if I need to row through another gear. At least the 718 remains a six speed. If I didn't need the rear seat I'd probably drop cash on a V8 Vantage which has proven itself, has great sound and one of the timeless and sexy bodies placed on a sportscar in recent times.
 
#39 ·
If you only need 911 sized back seats, and you like the Vantage, look at the DB9. Yes, it comes in a manual, although not that many. V12 isn't exactly a bad way to go either!

Regards,
Jerry
 
#41 ·
+1 for the 4.7 l.
Jerry I thought of the DB9... Not sure what the V12 reliability is. The extended wheelbase doesn't seem to be as well incorporated into the fender curves. A lot of these have grey or black interiors, less interesting than the Vantage. Lastly the US rear license plate mount is hideous. People have done the Euro conversion but it means filling two holes and repainting. All minor points in the grand scheme though...
 
#42 ·
CSBM5 –

I’ve had my eye on the e90 M3 sedan since I do miss the knife-like handling of smaller sedans and Porsches. But then again, the S62 motor makes up for a lot of the e39’s heft. I need to fit people in the back seat of the sedan, so how does the e90’s back seat compare to the e39 in terms of real life comfort?

I see in your sig that you have monoballs on your e39 M5. I’ll contact you offline about your experiences since mine is a daily driver.

Thanks
 
#43 · (Edited)
Well, I've had the E90 330i since it was new (wife's main car) 10.5 years ago, so I've had a long experience with E90 rear seat accommodations. The E90 M3, which I've had for over 3 years now, is identical in room in the back to the 330i with just softer, more comfortable leather I would say. In any event, it is noticeably less roomy than the E39 in back seat in two areas: headroom and width. I'm 6'2" and somewhat tall in the torso, and sitting the back of an E90 I'm not very comfortable for a long trip; however, short trips/usage is no problem, and it might be fine for shorter people, kids, etc.

Front seat in the E90 is much more comfortable to me than the M5. The sport seats fit me perfectly in the E90, have adjustable side bolsters also, and the driving position is more comfortable for me, especially the relation of the seat bottom height to the floor/pedals. All of this is subjective and highly dependent on one's size and proportions of course.

Re monoballs -- most people with stock upper strut mounts in front report little to no increased harshness. However, in my case I already had the Ground Control camber plates/mounts, and when I added the monoballs, the NVH definitely went up over sharp transitions such as Botts markers, broken pavement you can't drive around, stuff like that. It's not "bad" per se, just noticeably louder "bang" over those than without the monoballs. The car felt wonderful to drive however after the monoballs which was the last mod I did to the suspension 8-9 years ago now; sharper turn-in response and feel, and during heavy trailbraking with R-comps mounted, the accuracy and feedback through the steering wheel increased significantly.

Regards,
Chuck
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top