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At what point do we decide our cars are getting long in tooth?

10K views 83 replies 36 participants last post by  DirtyHarry 
#1 ·
Some may not get the idiom, but our cars are getting old! The newest e39 is now 13 years old.

I bought mine in 07, the e60 was ruler of the land, and in my opinion couldn't hold a flame to the e39. The e46 still held it's own and was incredibly common.

But now today, the M2/M3/M4/M5 lineup is just stunning....I'm talking about looks and presence, you can squabble about 'heart and soul' all you want. I'm talking about that tightness you get in the back of your throat when you see one parked on somewhere or see one on the road.

I will always get that with my M5, but I'm starting to be smitten with the looks of the newer models. Do I admit to myself that my car is getting to be vintage?

I'll most likely never sell the 'ol man (yes, my car is male, not female like most your rides) but it's presence and majesty is starting to wane. I went to a car gathering in 2012, it was with a local BMW club and most of the cars were e30's. Most of the crowd had their cell phones out taking pics and videos while I parked, same when I left, the car was a celebrity, I was merely it's escort. Today, I get parked in the back while people fawn over the modded 135i.

All this is OK, but what are your thoughts? Are you too proud or stubborn to admit that our cars are getting old AND showing their age?
 
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#5 · (Edited)
Nothing wrong with that.

When the car's technology gets so far behind current technology, it gets 'long in the tooth". Like you, I couldn't (still can't) see myself in an E60. F10 is different, I am impressed with the performance and the looks. Does it look as good as my E39? Not to me, but it is good looking car. Same with the E34, although I would call that one more "handsome". Very masculine to me.

One of the problems with the new breed is size and commonality. I don't need/want the size of the F10. Today, the right size (for me) is the 3 series. But I don't see the same "special car" in the 3 series I see in my old 5. There are some nice looking one's (Kevin bringing an M car back after ED for example), just now sure how special they feel. Waiting on Kevin for some reports! :)

The E39 can certainly be updated for some tech, but depends what you want. I don't need the car to tell me someone is in my blind spot (I don't have one as I know how to adjust my three mirrors), I don't need the car to tell me when I am wandering out of my lane. Heck I don't even need auto headlights (I don't find reaching for the switch to turn them out all that difficult to do). Launch control? Right foot. I guess I don't get a thrill when I know my car is better than the one next to me because of technology, not the driver.

So what is important that is missing? The new car smell? Or the current styling? I get it, it is fun to have the "latest and greatest", so if that is what you feel, then go for it. I don't care who knows what my car is, although I have gotten prime parking the few times I valet at a nice restaurant or hotel. I even had one guy recently stop me on the road (red light) to tell me never to sell, he made a big mistake when he sold his. What was he driving? New MB CLS AMG.

And while I applaud the increase in power and fuel efficiency, I have able to match some of that aftermarket (supercharger, different gearing). Can even work on the car when something goes wrong. Not computer controlled just computer assisted.

So I am guessing my "girl" still has at least another 5-10 years to go before I even consider selling her for the then current version of the BMW Terrafugia!!

Regards,
Jerry
 
#4 · (Edited)
Weird - had a similar conversation with my son-in-law last night. He's using my E39 as a DD while I'm now in an F10.

Bottom line? Yes, the E39 is an old car- in my case it's a 15 year old car - but that doesn't really matter. An E-Type is an old car. So is an original 911 or 3.0CSL or a gullwing Merc. The point is, some designs are classic. Not necessarily beautiful or even especially good dynamically. Just classic.

To me, the E39 sits in that rare group. It is a damn' fine looking car. It is pretty good dynamically. There are better cars out there today. My F10 M5 would destroy it in any test at all and it's also a fine looking car. But it's different - more modern, more sophisticated and, perhaps, less involving.

So they're both great. Just different. But yeah, the E39 is a bit long in the tooth now, tough I'm never getting rid of mine...
 
#6 ·
Hi,

I agree with the above points, there's no hard and fast rule as to when the E39 of any variant is 'long in the tooth', for many, after the first 3 years of ownership when usually, it was a company car/lease/employee perk, the car was 'long in the tooth' and those people just signed on the dotted line for the next car. To others the car still isn't long in the tooth at all - myself included.

It's all about the perception for the owner and how they feel. Some people are riding around in cars from the 1960's and 1970's, try telling them their car is 'long in the tooth' from a drivers and enjoyment perspective!

Some of the latest cars, even the entry level 1 series hatchbacks have rivalling performance of the E39 M5. It means everyone out there can potentially experience what was once considered Super Car levels of performance just 20 years ago in a every day shopping trolley/commuter car. The trouble is, 90% of those owners will NEVER drive the car enthusiastically at all and if they did, I'm sure they'd absolutely scare themselves silly. For the enthusiast contingent, there's no denying many will and do want the latest cars - I'd love an F11 with a big V8 engine or the biggest oil burning engine for a daily driver.

To take another aspect briefly mentioned above, there's always the route of modifying the car for better styling and performance in all areas of the car - suspension, drivetrain, engine, interior, audio, body and the net effect of those are to modernise the car whilst keeping it's fundamentals intact. This is the route I'd personally take!

Ultimately, the choice is yours, if you need the money and do decide for a newer car, then go for it, later, if you want/can, get another M5, there's still thousands around and will always be a selection to choose from for sale by other owners wishing to sell for whatever reason at the time. If you can keep the car and have it for weekend or fun duty only and get a newer car, then consider that as well !

Cheers, Dennis!
 
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#7 ·
Definitely starting to age, but enthusiasts do still notice and appreciate an E39 M5. At least around here. That said, as was always the case, not many people even know what an M5 is. Very rarely do people notice or comment on my M5 and I daily drive it all around a 200+ mile radius for work and pleasure. The past few days is a different story. There was a local cars and coffee meet on Sunday. I must have had 10 people say they love the car and 3 of those said it's their dream car to own some day. No, it doesn't garner crowds like newer M's might, but I honestly don't see that either.

Back to your original pondering, I do still tend to agree... the newest generations of M's are pulling at my heart strings. I'd love a "new" M4, by which I mean used. lol. And (I hope) I will own one of those someday. I'll never sell the E39 though. Some day it will indeed become a "once in a while" driver. This happens with everything in life. With the E39 and most people that own them, it just takes way more time to reach that point compared to other cars or other things in life. Your example of the E60 is case in point. I think the 1 series example will be the same thing... just a new wow factor that will dissipate quickly. The draw to an E39 will always be there.

Showing their age... I'd say a little, but not nearly as much as cars from other manufacturers from the same time period (E46 excluded). ALL THE TIME, when I tell people what year the car is they try to correct me by saying, "you mean 2010?". Compared to newer cars the technology is definitely showing it's age. From a daily driver standpoint I will admit that it would be nice to have some newer audio/infotainment. From an E39 M5 perspective, I think it's just fine the way it is. These cars are morphing roles, as any cool/classic/vintage car does over time.
 
#8 ·
Im never one to say I will never sell my car. Ive done so in the past with other cars, and ultimately I end up selling them. I know at some point in time, I will end up selling the e39 when the mileage and age value the car at next to nothing and the maintenance costs dont make sense to continue ownership.

In terms of newer cars, they will always catch my eye. I look at the new M3 and think what a nice sized and looking car it is. Performance and tech is all there too. I would go against the grain and find a manual if I decided to go that route, but what brings me back to the e39 is the wonderful V8. I do enjoy the sound of a lightly modded new M3, but theres something about the I6 I just cant compare against the roaring V8. Ive had turbo inline 6's in times past, and while I loved them, they just dont compare in sound. I know these arent the fastest cars on the road, but they sure are fun, and to be able to say that at 15 years old, and to have on demand torque at every gear shift at lower revs, im not willing to think about moving up just yet. It will happen, just not right now.
 
#9 ·
Ya the thought crosses my mind sometimes. But we have two nearly brand new vehicles in the stable - Mazda 3 that he wife drives and a Chevy Colorado 4WD pickup. In some ways the new tech is nice, but honestly my wife hates the new mouse driven interface in the Mazda and would much prefer an old style radio interface that we have been using in cars for decades now. The one useful feature in both vehicles is the back up camera on a nice big screen. And BT integration but you can do that multiple ways in a E39 - I have it in my M5 and the sound works great for phone calls.

I consider my M5 a DD but I don't really drove it daily. Lately it was pretty dirty and I was too busy to wash it so ended up sitting in the garage for a week or two. Washed it up and then drove it yesterday and was reminded all day long how special this car is and how fun to drive. Plus fits me perfectly from the seats to seating position to the dash layout etc. I love this car. Sure it's getting old. But hey aren't we all! Ha. I find the seating position and visibility of most cars built in this decade to be a little bit off. The higher belt line for looks and
safety mandates leave something to be desired in visibility and seating position IMO.

Anyway - I will keep driving mine as much as I can. 99K miles and counting !


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#10 ·
I went to a car show the other night that turned out to be a classic car show. The M5 felt out of place there, but far far less out of place than a new M4 or M5 would. The E39 is starting to show it's age, but it still has some life left in it.
 
#11 ·
What car show was that ?

Some people feel like its dated and others still thinking its a great car for what it is.
I've driven almost all the modern ///Ms and none appeal or tickle me like the E39 M5.
I would like to drive a Z8 to see what its all about.
I can see myself owning a F80 M3 manual when it gets to my price point in a few years.
 
#13 ·
Just a local Elgin car show - maybe 30 cars at the most last Saturday. I had the only car there with EFI, heh.
 
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#12 ·
The only thing I miss compared to a more modern car is the radio/nav setup and that can be corrected for relatively little cost if I really want to. Though I wouldn't mind having a set of magnehelic?? shocks the CTS-V has to help withe the crap roads around here and still keep the sporty capability.
 
#14 ·
All great points, and the tech/performance are definitely things you would consider, but I was speaking strictly of street presence. I always liked the fact that the M5 flew under the radar, it wasn't a 'look at me' car, but people who knew, respected it. Now, it seems that there are far fewer who know, and there are a lot more bigger and better super sedans out there that fly just as low under the radar.

Again, not complaining or whining, just observing.
 
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#15 ·
Sort of reminds me of a guy like Philly Mick..... gettin up there in years, dealing with arthritis, probs gettin some hair color work done, and typically getting beat by the young studs....... but still has the stuff to drop the hammer and kick some @$$ when he gets in the mood.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I love the e39 style...classic....for me my e39 is a dream car..I'm happy to own and modify one....where I'm from cars over 25 years old are considered antiques by the dmv (saaq)...I'll be happy to keep my car for life...

As it is now when I go to car meets ppl trip out over my e39...at every car meet I go to its either I'm the only e39 m5 or my buddy who is in the same club as me will also be there.but always a few e60 m5...they are much more common..ppl seriously trip out and take tons of pics...every weekend I'm out I get atleast 2 ppl who speed up to catch up to me just to give me a thumbs up....my car is noticed as rare and have already had a few offered to buy it...not for sale though....lol...

My e39 will be my newest bmw ever owned.....if I ever get another it will be an e30 to drop a s62 into it....other than that if I own other cars or trucks it won't be bmw..not that I do think like bmw...but there's just so much stuff I want and my e39 m5 is all I need from bmw
 
#24 · (Edited)
As it is now when I go to car meets ppl trip out over my e39...at every car meet I go to its either I'm the only e39 m5 or my buddy who is in the same club as me will also be there.but always a few e60 m5...they are much more common..ppl seriously trip out and take tons of pics...every weekend I'm out I get atleast 2 ppl who speed up to catch up to me just to give me a thumbs up....my car is noticed as rare and have already had a few offered to buy it...not for sale though....lol...
At the last local cars and coffee, I think there were 7 or 8 E39 M5s there and only two E60 M5s. I see plenty of them all around town here in Raleigh on a regular basis as daily drivers still. I think on a per capita basis, Raleigh has the highest ratio of LMB M5s in the world as witnessed by our local meetups at C&C. :) Speaking of which, I've not driven the M5 but once since May...time for some exercise; it turned 15 on July 17th.
 
#17 ·
The car has aged well for sure and because of that, it still has some road presence. Give it a slight lowered stance and a square setup and you have some more boost for road presence. More so, I think the E39 M5 is transitioning/has become a "Respect Your Elders" type of vehicle.
 
#18 ·
Well you guys know where I will come out, LOL. The F10 is no competition for the E39 on a road course. Those boats lift and float like crazy. But they will kill an unmodified E39 in a straight line and provide incomparable luxury doing so, which is admittedly the concept behind the E39 M5. So if I wanted a cross-country cruiser that was wickedly fast, the F10 would be it. But the E39 M5 is much more of a road course car, especially when subjected to even the most modest lightening effort.

The new BMWs are technologically superior, without a doubt, and have a lot more upside. But there is something inherently raw and wonderful about the E39 M5 that continues to draw me to it: the fact that BMW engineers stuck a strung out race engine in a four-door daily driver, an engine that subsequently powered Daytona prototypes to multiple Rolex 24 Hour wins. That's just too freaking cool. I love it. Combined with the rigidity of the E39 M5 chassis and the fact that it's about the same size as a current M3, it is one Hell of a potential race car, as I intend to prove (once I get the damn thing done).

My next race build will be an E92, so I may be dead before I get to converting the M4 into a race car!

--Peter
 
#20 ·
No real argument, but given the relative costs of an E39 or F10 (even used), for a relatively few $$$, you can easily upgrade the e39 in power and handling. Technology would be a little tougher, but after stereo upgrade, what do you need if you carry a smart phone?:grin

Regards,
Jerry
 
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#19 ·
First day today with my 2003 supercharged beast and I come onto the board and find this thread about the car being "long in the tooth"?
But seriously it's still an awesome car. I will at some point add a m4 but all the others in between from bmw really don't interest me. I almost feel that BMW lost it way for a bit.
 
#22 ·
Parking sensors? Even that's debatable. I don't have those on mine and I don't miss them. Have them on our E93 but don't really need them. It's a small car. Very helpful on my truck having a backup camera tho.

I agree. BT for phone is all I care about. Would be nice maybe to have satellite and or BT audio for long trips. But so far I make it work with an old style iPod interface. Eventually I will replace the head unit and do nice speakers and amps and then I will be truly all set with all I need to care about.

Even windows are optional. As long as the fronts work. Neither of my rear windows work currently. Another item towards the back of the to do list I guess !


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#25 ·
In Silicon Valley they are getting quite rare. But there are a few that I see on a regular basis - mostly silver, occasionally CB. My neighbor has a nice sterling gray which is very rare. There are two more Imolas that I know of locally besides mine. So there are a handful that get regular use around here I would say.

Around here you see lots of F10 and more and more of them are M5 or M6 grand coupes. Even more F30 3 series with the occasional M3 or 4 which tend to be more rare.

Way too many Prius's and volts and leafs tho!


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#26 ·
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. Last year I had just about talked myself into an F80 M3 but I started hearing stories about warranties getting voided and now I see Ray's issues with the F10... To Jerry's point, take the $10k you know you would spend anyway modifying the new one, spend it on the E39 and you can have a monster.

So yeah E39 is getting a little old and now some parts are getting pricey but I think we can knock a few more years out if it before we move on. Maybe not to newer BMWs though. :dunno:

Then again, maybe if everybody finished their magnificent project cars it would make the E39 sexy again :rofl:
 
#30 ·
Agreed SC-ing the beast really breaths new life into it's old bones, but it doesn't really change the way it looks....which is the discussion here. (I'm all for posts going off topic, just pointing it out. No I don't play Pokemon go, wtf???)
 
#32 ·
I am not sure that the E39 is still not good looking.

To me, the newer M cars are simply overdone, like caricatures of what they should be. Especially in the front, they have a ton of scoops and cutouts which are mostly for show (some portion for cooling). But I have no doubt that if BMW engineers wanted to, they would find a way to be less aggressive. The general shape of the F10 is more pleasing to most than the series it replaced.

That is the beauty of the "long in the tooth" cars, they don't need to have a "look at me I am an M car" front end; if you are part of the cognoscenti you know what it is. If you not, then it really doesn't matter if you think it is just another BMW.... M series were an early version of road warrior Q ships.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#31 ·
I don't ever see myself getting rid of either of my e39s, especially the M5. The one thing I can't stand with most of the new cars is that they sound horrible, every time there's a gear change it sounds like it's farting haha.
 
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