ROYAL PURPLE Motor Oil VS OEM Castrol TWS 10W60

marcvip · 27th February 2005, 21:59

Please read below...

RP oils use Group IV PAO's and other synthetics along with synthetic additives that contain diluents.

Castrol is a Group III hydrocracked mineral oil that is now commonly being called synthetic.

GI- solvent refined petroleum base stock. It is common belief that no SL rated oil uses 100% GI basestock, but some of them do have some GI in them.

GII- hydrotreated petroleum base stock. More refined, with less gunk in it. More stable, and usually with a higher viscosity index. Chevron and pennzoil oils use nothing but this group in their oils. Common belief that all SL oils use this in a certain amount.

GIII- "hydrocracked" or severely hydrofinished base stock. Castrol won the right for oil blenders to call this group "synthetic". Most OTC synthetics are made from this base. I think they use the same process to make it as GII, but take it a step further.

****Groups 1 to 3 are petroleum base stocks. ****

G-IV PAO base stock. Chemically produced from ethelene gas. True synthetic oil, and primary basestock used in mobil, amsoil and most top tier synthetics. Much more stable and has higher VI index than GIII. Can handle more extreme temps.

CASTROL AND MOBIL GO TO COURT TO BATTLE IT OUT:

Recently, Mobil accused Castrol of reformulating its synthetic by substituting other basestocks in place of its synthetic polyaphaolefins (PAO's). Castrol is a hydrocracked oil. That's right, Castrol has replaced the PAO synthetic base stock with hydroisomerized petroleum base stock. Hydrocracking, as it's called, is the highest level of petroleum refining. Castrol isn't even a Group 4 synthetic yet Castrol ended up winning the battle when the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol could still market its oil as "synthetic" despite their new formulation. Basically, they expanded the definition of synthetics to include Group 3 hydroprocessed petroleum oil. This high profile case took place because synthetics are recognized as the market's best hope for growth. Synthetic oil sales have outpaced petroleum oil sales by a wide margin and the gap continues to widen every year. Consumers are getting smarter and demand the best for their vehicles. Read the full story on the Castrol issue in our informative articles section. Additionally, just as soon as Castrol won this battle, several other major oil companies jumped in and came up with hydroprocessed motor oils of their own and labeled these products to be "100% synthetic", when they still are Group 3 hydro processed petroleum oils.

Incidentally, the Castrol 5W-50 allows for a 2.284 mm wear scar (ASTM D4172 4-Ball Wear Test), compared to the a Group IV 20W-50 Racing Oil which allows for a 0.454 mm wear scar. That's 5 times greater wear with Castrol!

mottati · 28th February 2005, 00:22

there was a huge thread about this not too long ago, the castrol that is being discussed in your quote is the US market syntec (5w50), not the german made tws, (or the german made bmw long life synthetic, for that matter). both the tws and bmw labeled 5w30 are group IV's, iirc.

ard · 28th February 2005, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mottati

there was a huge thread about this not too long ago,

Yeah, try 5-10 threads on this over the years.

You cannot just cite "castrol" without the details of which of the hundreds of castrol products you are comparing.

The title of this tread promises a 'versus Castrol TWS 10W16' but none of the text appears to be about the TWS oils!

Sure, the BS with the court case over "synthetic group III" sets one's blood boiling over the marketing and business slime at castrol- but let's work with facts. The german castrol 5w30 and the TWS are very different than the other stuff cstrol mass markets here in the US.

Marc- how about a link to the two ASTM specs you cite on wear marks?

thx

a

marcvip · 28th February 2005, 02:05

thanks...Great thread and good reading!

Synthetic oils and my take on them in our cars.

6spd · 28th February 2005, 04:31

Quote:

try 5-10 threads on this over the years.

Seems like more than that.

This is the reason I still will never use anything but Mobil1
I remember the start of all this when Castrol pulled this move.
Then I remember Valvoline getting the act.

I changed my filter yesterday and added one quart.
After 111000 miles on the 540I it still doesn't burn a quart.

Here we are in the winners circle

SC'dKellenersM5 · 28th February 2005, 07:27

i just use aunt jamima maple syrup...seems to work well.

jimmyz2 · 28th February 2005, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC'dKellenersM5

i just use aunt jamima maple syrup...seems to work well.

That is not funny.I heard she is in the hospital.........................She burned her buns.

SC'dKellenersM5 · 28th February 2005, 07:45

correction..should be Jemima, not Jamima...jamima is her maiden name.

marcvip · 28th February 2005, 13:36

I'm personally a Mazola 0w0 guy

Royal Purple differs in the oil film strength due to the Synerlec additive technology package. They literally have 300% to as much as 400% more oil film strength resistance to metal to metal contact as measured in ASTM High Film Strength tests such as a Timken OK Load or Four Ball EP Wear Test. You will not find any of these test data from Castrol in that the majors do not feel that engine oil requires this kind of load testing.

Some of the better high performance testing would include Cosworth Indy Engines and Ferrari 333 SP 12 cylinders at Daytona And Sebring in the mid 90's.
Cosworth noted a 1% gain over the major branded synthetic race oil and a decrease of engine blowby by 23%. (Engine sealed better).
At Daytona and Sebring in 97 RP won the pole, finishing second in the 24 hour and winning the 12 hr. The Ferrari team from Europe could not believe that RP could outperform Shell the way it did - it's not the baseoil type it's the quality of the additives that make most motor oils perform differently.

marcvip · 28th February 2005, 19:34

I've never liked Castrol oil.... I just need convincing that TWS is the best for our engines;

Typical engine oil, mineral or synthetic, will have a 15-20 psi value in an ASTM D-2782 Timken OK Load.
RP engine oils, due to Synerlec, will measure 60-80 psi in the same test.
A major oil company's EP gear oil will typically only measure 60 psi so our motor oil actually has more load carrying ability than an EP gear oil!

In an ASTM D-2783 Four Ball EP Wear Test, an engine oil, mineral or synthetic, will typically be in the 125 kg range.
The RP Motor oils will be 315 kg.

In an oxidation test called a TFOUT, ASTM D 4742, a typical mineral oil would be 150-300 minutes. A typical synthetic such as Amsoil or Mobil 1 is in the 400-500 minute range. RP Motor oils exceed 1300 minutes in the same 360 F oxidation test.

it's very hard to 'bench race' or compare oils per ASTM / SAE/ or ILSAC tests as the tests are meant to differentiate minimum performance standards, not differentiate high end performance levels.