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Avoiding an insurance write off

2K views 11 replies 7 participants last post by  OlieL 
#1 ·
My '02 Le Mans Blue M5 got rearended by a bloody courier van on Friday. No mechanical damage but going to need new bumper / bootlid / boot surround.

Insurer is already making noises about a write off. Vines BMW Bodyshop have estimated £5k to fix. Insurer will write off if repair costs more than 66% of the replacement value... So working out the true replacement value is important!

A paid for Parkers valuation, once adjusted for my spec, is good at £14-15k (and broadly matches current autotrader prices). Glass's free web price is woefully unrealistic - less than £4k! Good luck getting a driveable M5 for that...!

I''ve read all the Financial Ombudsman stuff but wondered if anyone has first hand experience of fighting insurers. Any tips much appreciated; in particular, why the Glass's valuation is so far off the current market price. I've read on t'web that Glass's is less accurate for older vehicles - anyone got a view? And as I can't even buy a valuation from the other provider, CAP, which surely reeks of an industry stitch up.

Any comments much appreciated - Otherwise it's going to be just a big dose of tenacity and waving the Parkers valuation and Autotrader under their noses until I get the right outcome (which means my car getting fixed - am not interested in losing her)!

Cheers all
 
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#2 ·
No english experience, but this is universal. You always have the option to buy the car out and take the settlement value. In Canada that will avoid branding not sure about England you should investigate. In Canada the two rarely make it likely you can repair the car for less than a loss but think about it. Car always comes out better than what you had, assuming no structural damage.
 
#3 ·
+1 on this. Also you are the one that has been wronged. Make that clear to the van drivers insurance co. When i lived in canada they had this no fault nonsense that complicated things (hope uk is not like that).

In europe from my experience you call the responsible party directly and arrange the repairs. I have settled on cash once when rear ended and fixed it myself and have also just dropped off the car at the dealer with a guarantee letter from insurance co ... Also rear ended. And no never the m5 :)

In any case you were not at fault and have that card to play. Good luck and keep in mind the insurance co is probably hiding something... The b*sta*ds
 
#4 ·
I had to fight with my insurance on another vehicle. They were trying to call it a total loss and just write me a check and take the vehicle. The value they had my vehicle for was less than what you would get by parting it out. So they were really tryin to stick it to me.

I sent them prob close to 100 pages of documentation, broken down by sections:
- Recently sold vehicles (90 days) in similar condition/mileage etc on the forum
- Recently sold vehicles (90 days) in similar condition/mileage etc on Autotrader & Cars.com
- Recently sold vehicles (90 days) in similar condition/mileage etc on Ebay
- Currently listed for sale vehicles in similar condition/mileage etc on the forum
- Currently listed for sale vehicles in similar condition/mileage etc on Autotrader & Cars.com
- Currently listed for sale vehicles in similar condition/mileage etc on Ebay

I got a phone apology and they increased the value of the vehicle by $10K, and approved the repair claim. No total loss, no salvage title.

It took probably half a dozen hours to gather all the info, print it out, highlight the necessary parts, etc. And weeks of fighting, but once that thick stack of proof landed on their desk, things changed VERY quickly. So if you wanna win, you gotta put in the time.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Let the research commence...

Thanks all for thoughts, much appreciated.

I'm in the process of pulling together the info in anticipation of the insurer attempting to fob me off. I've already found a couple of cars that are on Autotrader for £15k and £18k - less miles than mine but older and lesser spec, so the thought that the insurer might offer me less than half that is nuts.

If worst comes to worst I will definitely buy the car back and refer the insurer to the Financial Services Ombudsman. Given the good Parker's valuation, I am fairly confident that that would actually end up making me some money, but frankly I just want my car sorted and back on the road ASAP.

I'll also do a search on the forum to see if there's a thread which identifies the most valuable / popular options (apart from the inevitable good natured "My Carbon Black / Le Mans Blue / Imola Red / Silverstone Blue Beast is better than your [insert any other colour here]" banter (Le Mans Blue FTW, by the way) :).

My car's pretty well specced (Full Nappa, Comms prep, etc. ) so it would be good to be able to produce that too. If anyone knows of such a thread let me know.

The one nice thing is that in the UK at least I can seek to recover my time dealing with the insurer from them, so I've got a time recording app up and running...
 
#7 · (Edited)
Fdnewbie is on the money! I work with insurance total loss and that is exactly the way to go. Showing the vehicles sold price is the best. A for sale price doesn't mean much. Arguing price from any dealership doesn't work either due to overhead dealer costs. The more info you have to prove their numbers wrong the better off you are.

In some cases people actually have their cars totaled and it's worth more totaled than they are in working condition. My daily is in this category.


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#12 ·
Absolutely. For UK market (apologies to US friends), the first point of call is the Financial Services Ombudsman website to see what criteria they apply:

motor insurance: vehicle valuation

The reason for this is that (unless you take the insurer to Court, which is not a great idea given the depth of their pockets) if you refuse to accept the insurer's offer the FSO will essentially determine what a fair value was for your car, so it is worth knowing their method for doing that so you can play it back to the insurer in your conversations with them. The FSO essentially prioritise the guides (Parkers, Glass's, CAP). You can buy valuations as a consumer from the first 2 but not the 3rd, which to my mind stinks from a consumer protection perspective. Until CAP publishes their valuations to the public then they are vulnerable to allegations of just being a cosy motor trade stitch up and I would have taken that point (unless of course CAP's value helped my case, in which case I'd have been happy to accept it!)

For my car, Parker's valuation was double the Glass's valuation. I thought it was worth it to pay £4 for the premium valuations which take your options into account. That said, the Glass's guide valuation was actually reduced when I put in my options, which are generally the good ones... basically, the Glass's valuation just did not stack up at all.

The motor trade rely on Glass's a lot (9/10 garages, apparently), but I suspect that's because they offer valuations most favourable to the trade and not consumers. A lot of the write ups criticising Parkers are from garage owners saying things like "Well if Parkers will pay that why don't you go and sell it to them" - it's important to realise that isn't the right perspective here as we are not talking about part-exchange values (which will be the lowest of the valuations you get) and the FSO will I suspect take Parker's at face value. However, if you've got at least one independent price guide on your side then you're in a much better position. I did read that Glass's is generally more accurate on cars less than 3 years old, and Parkers better on older cars, but that was just opinion.

I also got a general valuation from my BMW specialist indy who has looked after the car for ages. That helps because he recognises that the value of these cars is going up not down, whereas the guides are based on historic sales data. There's also more prospect of the FSO taking his opinion into account than a list of "For sale" prices from Autotrader. He would also have been able to confirm the recent work (suspension / recent service). Sometimes the insurers apparently offer to appoint a joint expert, but they often try to do so on the basis that the expert's decision is binding, which I would not accept. Given that I was sitting on a good Parkers valuation, I would not have accepted an expert. I don't mean to do them a disservice but given that as a matter of pure practicality the majority of such experts income must come from insurers, I would be pretty sceptical of them ever producing a valuation in my favour for fear of biting the hand that feeds them.

Another key point to note is that you're entitled to the cost of a vehicle purchased from a reputable dealer, not private sales prices, and definitely not part-ex prices. Had it come to it, I would also have argued that I should be entitled to add the cost of a 1 year warranty since purchasing a car like ours when you don't know the history or how it's been driven is a big risk given the potential fix costs. Don't know where I'd have got with that though.

The final thing to realise is that you are not bound or required to accept anything the insurer offers unless you are comfortable with it. Don't be unrealistic in terms of your valuation because that'll just lead to lots of hassle for you for no reward, but equally don't let the insurer's loss adjuster push you around. I get the feeling that there aren't many shrinking violets on this board though :)

On the basis of the cap they put on the cost of repairs for my car, I think the valuers were working on a value of around £10 - £11k for an M5 in similar condition (120k on the clock). Thankfully, that was enough to cover me.
 
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