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"Track Day Tyres" for every day use

6K views 30 replies 11 participants last post by  CSBM5 
#1 ·
I'll be in need of some tyres very soon and was wondering as you do about what my next choice will be.


Given that the M5 is now used as a pleasure car for high and dry days mostly and also given that its now endowed with extra horsepower I thought about tyres that offered more grip than the average road tyre.


A mate of mine has a track dedicated car running Federal RSR track day tyres and I have used this on many an occasion at events and the Nurburgring and have to say I'm blown away by the level of grip offered by these tyres over and above even very good road rubber.


Considering they live solely on track under a lot of abuse they have lasted pretty well thus far too.


Although I appreciate that the downsides to sticky track rubber is a lower lifespan and comparably poor wet performance over its road counterpart, because my use of the car has now differed from its daily duties I don't need a tyre that will last me 15000 miles, nor something that excels in the wet.


The only other real consideration is the fact they are unavailable in 245 and 275 widths, I would have to drop to 235 and 265 width, although research shows these tyres to be on the wide side of fitment and they sit like a tyre that's 10mm wider anyway. Furthermore the sheer grip difference offered over road tyres would wipe out the so called 10mm contact patch difference.


The tyres are also pretty inexpensive when compared to some high end road tyres.


Has anyone got any experiences or thoughts on running a track bias tyre over a road bias one given its projected use?


I'd like to hear your thoughts.


Cheers


Jamie
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I would suggest the Nitto NT-01 is the best compromise for a track/road tire that you won't use in the wet. I've driven them in the wet, and you just have to very careful (when they are rather new) or forget it if they're 1/2 worn. They are a great track day tire in the sense that they are long wearing, have excellent grip, and have a nice response near/at/over the limits.

I've used them for many years both on my M5 and M3. I've driven to the BMW PC for BMW Club events which is about a 500 mile round trip and to other local tracks like VIR (150mi round trip) and NCCAR (200 mile round trip), etc, with no issues as they are "tough" enough for street driving unlike a Hoosier for example. They also, in most people's experiences, do not heat cycle out before you get to the cords...or at least not a great deal compared to other high hysteresis tires like a Hoosier.

The only issue with the NT-01 is that it is LOUD, especially after the first couple of serious heat cycles. It is loud in two ways -- a truck tire like whine from it's tread pitch arrangement coupled with cavity noise resonances at low speeds, and it also transmits high frequency vibrations into the chassis that buzzes things you've never heard before. If you daily drive these tires, that might get old after a while. Forget about comfort measurements too. :)

If you want to "sit in the middle" between a mild R-comp like the NT-01 and highest end summer tires, choose either one of the new "street tire class" autocross developed tires instead: the latest Bridgestone RE-71R or the BF Goodrich Rival S. These are molded at 8/32s and 7.2/32s respectively in order to pass the SCCA rules of minimum of 7/32 molded tread depth. Both are excellent performers and a league ahead of any other summer performance tire. Due to their soft tread compounds, they're supposed to be pretty good in the wet too.

All of these three are available in 275/35-18 for square setups (and 245/40-18 is you're still staggered too)

Regards,
Chuck
 
#5 ·
If you want to "sit in the middle" between a mild R-comp like the NT-01 and highest end summer tires, choose either one of the new "street tire class" autocross developed tires instead: the latest Bridgestone RE-71R or the BF Goodrich Rival S. These are molded at 8/32s and 7.2/32s respectively in order to pass the SCCA rules of minimum of 7/32 molded tread depth. Both are excellent performers and a league ahead of any other summer performance tire. Due to their soft tread compounds, they're supposed to be pretty good in the wet too.

All of these three are available in 275/35-18 for square setups (and 245/40-18 is you're still staggered too)

Regards,
Chuck
They are getting good reviews for lighter cars. Do I take it these are better than PSS for overall use given track days are more than occasional?

Regards,
Jerry
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Chuck.


I'm based in the UK so I'm not sure on availability of the Nitto tyres but perhaps the Bridgestones are available over here.


You make a great point about noise and resonance which I had discounted completely. As my experience of these tyres have been rose tinted somewhat by their performance the fact its been with them mounted on a dedicated track car which is by nature noisy and resonant anyway perhaps this is something I should seriously consider as a factor so i'll do some more digging.


I have bought a set of scruffy M Parallel alloys to which I had planned to mount some track biased rubber anyways for dedicated outings on track, and so if any tyres I get perform well but are a little too harsh for street duty, they won't be waste as I can simply swap them over onto these rims.


Cheers


Jamie
 
#7 ·
R888's we can get over here. Although they are twice the price of the Federals I linked and are a better tyre as far as grip is concerned, its generally the opinion of users here in the UK that the Federals are about 90% of the performance for about 50% of the price of the Toyo's and life of the Federals are also slightly better.


I'll have a look around at the prices of Toyo, Bridgestones and others, see what I can find out. A quick look on google about Nitto's in the UK are that I can't get them unless I pay for them from a US site and will have to pay delivery, import duty etc so that may be a non starter.


I think noise could be a factor if its excessive, I like the fact that although the car is modified it sticks with the ethos as much as practically possible that its a luxury sedan, and although some compromises have to be made I'd rather them not be to the point where they drastically affect the drive quality.
 
#10 ·
I think noise could be a factor if its excessive, I like the fact that although the car is modified it sticks with the ethos as much as practically possible that its a luxury sedan, and although some compromises have to be made I'd rather them not be to the point where they drastically affect the drive quality.
R compounds are really loud. the R888's and NT-01's are exceptionally loud (from experience).
 
#9 ·
I was going to order r888 for my apex arc 8 wheels for the track I really wanted sport cup 2 so im subscribed
 
#13 ·
Just FYI. Discount tire direct has $100 off $400 and you can use the code 3 times per person. link: Discount Tire Direct Coupon: Motor Wheels & Tires - Slickdeals.net

They also carry a number of other products that can be used as fillers to get to that $400 mark. Expires today. Valve stems are $12 and the cheapest item they carry. Unsure on international shipping through ebay but through the site itself they do.
 
#14 ·
That discounttiredirect.com discount on eBay is excellent. I used one of these promotions when I bought the last set of NT-01s. Here's the link to the 275s. At $502 with free shipping for two tires and then minus $100 at checkout, you get two 275 NT-01s shipped for $402. Do this twice and you get a set for $804. Can't beat this deal.

I wonder if discounttiredirect would ship to the UK? At this price, that's only about £525 for a set of four; perhaps at that price shipping et al wouldn't sting too bad?
 
#15 ·
Here's a post on M3post about the Federal 595-RSR's:

BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92) - View Single Post - So who's running 285/30/18 Square?

I've had experience with them in the past and have always found them to be subpar too. Then again, they were fine for hooning around or drifting. :)

If your car is not going to be a daily driver and is more so a track or weekend vehicle, you could invest a little more money on them since the tires should last longer due to less usage. Check out the AD08R's. I use them for the track and canyons and love how grippy they are and how long they last.
 
#16 ·
Jamie, I've only been to UK twice, but I get the impression roads are wet more often than they're dry over there. For all around performance, any of the Extreme Performance category tires will do, Direzza Star Specs, Potenza RE 11s, Hankook RS3s. If your car is indeed sunny days only AND your suspension upgrades are up to par for more absolute grip (b/c the car needs to perform as a package), then Nitto NT01 is the bargain to the much more costlier Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s, which comes standard on Cayman GT4 and Corvette Z06s I believe. Happy tracking!
 
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#17 ·
I've seen that before with the Federals and from what i've seen it 's an issue they've resolved. Bimmermule you guys really do have a much better selection of tyres across your side of the pond, however a lot of this listed aren't available over here at all.

Direzza, Hankook RS3 and Nitto are all unavailable in the UK and i'd have to pay a firtune to get them shipped and pay import duty.

I had a look at AD08's but they run at about £400 per tyre here so around $2300 for a set of tyres!!!
 
#18 · (Edited)
Jammie,

Before *ever* thinking of the AD08s at such a crazy price, I'd go with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2 in 265/35-18 all around at 181 each with free shipping. The PSC2 will easily outperform the AD08R and all the other high end summer tires discussed. I've not seen any data yet vs the NT-01, but I'm guessing it's a better track tire than the NT-01 and definitely better to use on the street and track.

You've probably seen some of the road tests of cars that come standard with them like the 991 GT3 and the C7 Z06, etc, and the incredible numbers they've generated in handling tests.

You could probably get away using the 285/30-18 all around too with the right wheel width and net offset as I see they have that size available in the PSC2 also. Just make sure you get the PSC2 and not the older, still available, PSC and PSC+ as the 2 version is a vast improvement in grip and something like 50% less wear also.

Chuck
 
#19 ·
Again thanks for your input Chuck.


I'm using standard wheels so I don't know if you mean a 265 will still fit on the standard fronts or you assume I'm running square?


Certainly at that price they look a much better option for me as a tyre!


I can get 235/40's for £148 and 265/35s for £168 delivered so not bad at all.


All Tyres » FREE DELIVERY » Oponeo.co.uk


Thanks


Jamie
 
#20 ·
Yes, I was thinking square setup with 9.5 wheels all around. If still using the stock wheels up front, I think I would go with the stock 245/40-18 up front (don't see that on the site you linked to, but they definitely make the PSC2 in 245/40) and use the 265/35 in the rear.
 
#22 ·
I would STRONGLY caution you from using a dry ONLY tire for everyday use, when you can't guarantee dry conditions.

On the SupraForurms, we have WAYY too many guys who have accidentally lost traction, spun out, and wrecked their Supras while just cruising along on Toyo R888s when they inadvertently hit a patch of standing water. That's all it took.

Racetrack & Autocross Only tires are made for just that: OFF-road use only. If you wanna gamble with a $30K beast that's gonna be hard to replace, that's your choice. But I wouldn't advise it.

Get Michelin PSS and call it a day. And make it home safely every time.

That's my $0.02.
 
#23 ·
Well i've ended up plumping for the new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's.


Not fitted yet as they've only just arrived and i don't fully expect to be able to exploit them fully in this weather!


After looking into it coupled with some of the comments on here i started to appreciate more that no matter how spirited you drive there will always be times on the road where you simply need to stop or give way and so its not exactly the same as driving quickly around a track where you can work the tyres for a long consistent amount of time.


I've took the recommendation on board and also found amongst other forums and boards that these are rated very highly amongst owners of high horsepower cars and people who use them on track so i'm happy to go for them.


This way I get the nearest i can to the best of both worlds concerning a tyre that can deal with road conditions and yet ive track like performance



The only downside is that they only come with about 5mm tread as brand new so won't last a long time, and they aren't availbale as a 275 tyre only a 265 so i've had to drop 10mm width. They are supposedly a wide fitting tyre though, and coupled with the better performance of them over a standard road tyre it doesn't fuss me.


However as a second car i don't need to have them last 15K so we'll see how I get on
 
#24 ·
Well i've ended up plumping for the new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's.


Not fitted yet as they've only just arrived and i don't fully expect to be able to exploit them fully in this weather!


After looking into it coupled with some of the comments on here i started to appreciate more that no matter how spirited you drive there will always be times on the road where you simply need to stop or give way and so its not exactly the same as driving quickly around a track where you can work the tyres for a long consistent amount of time.


I've took the recommendation on board and also found amongst other forums and boards that these are rated very highly amongst owners of high horsepower cars and people who use them on track so i'm happy to go for them.


This way I get the nearest i can to the best of both worlds concerning a tyre that can deal with road conditions and yet ive track like performance
Both good and bad. As you note, ultimate grip when hot will be better than the MPSS. But the Cup tire is more sensitive to heat cycles, so it will be interesting to see how many miles you get. If you have a square setup, then at least you can rotate the tires.

The only downside is that they only come with about 5mm tread as brand new so won't last a long time, and they aren't availbale as a 275 tyre only a 265 so i've had to drop 10mm width. They are supposedly a wide fitting tyre though, and coupled with the better performance of them over a standard road tyre it doesn't fuss me.


However as a second car i don't need to have them last 15K so we'll see how I get on
The lesser amount of tread is to HELP performance. At least on track, with high heat, the tread tends to "squirm" around a bit making for less than ideal handling. By minimizing the tread depth, you minimize the squirm and increase handling. As long as you are not down to the wear bars and not too many heat cycles, the less tread the better! In dry weather, you don't need to the grooves to channel water. Just be extra careful in the wet as the tire wears down!!!

Regards,
Jerry
 
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#25 ·
j looking forward to your results as I am looking to run the same tire for track days I am assuming you went with a 265 35 18
 
#27 ·
Jerry thanks for the heads up. FWIW although i know that tread depth isn't an indicator per se of performance in the dry i didn't know about the whole tread "squirm" issue which now you mention it does make more sense.

My comment about lasting as long is borne out of from a legality POV regarding tread depth.

As far as heat cycling goes i don't have anything but conjecture and anecdotal evidence (in the loosest sense) to offer but i am thinking the tyres won't necessarily be worked anything like they would do if they lived almost exclusively on track and so i am hoping they last like a road tyre, and that is to the point they are worn in terms of tread depth before junking them as opposed to them being heat cycled, but time will tell.

Geaorge, yes mate i opted for 265 simply as 275 or 285 are not available and to my mind this is the easiest tyre to opt for near to our regular sizing. I am hoping that the nature of it being a known slightly wider fitting tyre, combined with the expected extra grip oveer a 275 road tyre will negat the 10mm less width.

Hopefully!!!
 
#28 ·
It should negate thats what I have been told
 
#29 · (Edited)
The new R888R is apparently going to be available in the US next year (maybe in UK now/soon?), so while looking ever more like its sister, the NT01, this new tire is coming in a wide range of sizes. Just another upcoming option to add to the stack. Link to Toyo EU site for R888R.
 
#30 ·
i was not aware toyo was going to revamp the r888
 
#31 ·
Me neither, but it's long past time for them to revamp the r888 and nt01 one would think.
 
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