class action agiainst BMW?

stanm5 · 27th September 2004, 15:50

I'd like to throw this question out to some of the lawyers in our community:
Is there merit in initiating a class action suit against BMW for the poor performance of the clutch in the M5? If so, what is involved?
I seem to recall not too long ago that a group of e31 owners were successful in suing BMW for some fualt realted to their model.
Any opinions?
Cheers,

JB_UK · 27th September 2004, 17:00

Stan - I agree completely. You buy one of these at no small cost assuming that because it's BMW it will be 'suitably' engineered. Taking into account the over priced servicing costs its scandalous + Reading through the threads here it's obviously not just the clutch but a whole host of others issues haunts the M5 (VANOS anyone?).ffice

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I posted a similar query a while ago and only got a response from Gustav – which to be honest didn’t offer any comfort(read for yourself).Legal Action Against BM?

Hope this post gets more of a response. I’m no legal expert but would have thought there’d be a good case - taking into account the amount of problems reported here!! Fingers crossed….

JB

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanm5

I'd like to throw this question out to some of the lawyers in our community:
Is there merit in initiating a class action suit against BMW for the poor performance of the clutch in the M5? If so, what is involved?
I seem to recall not too long ago that a group of e31 owners were successful in suing BMW for some fualt realted to their model.
Any opinions?
Cheers,

Gustav · 27th September 2004, 17:09

I still think this would be a bad idea. Also, this would with 100% certainty reduce the chance of a manual E60 M5.

JB_UK · 27th September 2004, 17:16

Gustav - I don't think the question is whether it is a good or bad idea. It's what is Just! We are paying a lot of money for problems that shouldn't be there! And if we don't collectively do something about it then I guess no one will....

We've all read about failed units and sympathised hoping that it won't be us posting next... well it could be. This might change our mind re it being a good idea...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

I still think this would be a bad idea. Also, this would with 100% certainty reduce the chance of a manual E60 M5.

RRoberts · 27th September 2004, 17:21

IM(H)O, manufacturer legal liability is limited to safety-related issues. Premature clutch failure is something that BMW should have foreseen and fixed before the E39 M5 entered production, and this is not rocket science. But consider that owners of the previous model M5 complained about too stiff a clutch pedal. Also this is no commodity commuter car we are talking about, but arguably the highest performing 4 seat sedan created up to that point. There is a saying "you have to pay if you want to play" that probably applies here. And it is definitely possible to make the clutch last an almost reasonable length of time if you don't beat the car. BMW has responded to the clutch "black eye" by limiting the E60 M5 to SMG, which I personally find regretable. I do not like the harshness of the E46 SMG, and learned long ago how to downshift under track conditions. The only thing worse would be if BMW limited all its U.S. cars to automatics, as some manufacturers do.

There is something about the E39 series that is a good deal more worrisome from a safety viewpoint, and that is the premature failure of rear subframes. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that this is increasing in frequency, and is not focussed on the M5 model only but rather seems to be related to road impacts. However a few Board members have experienced this failure, and undoubtedly the M5 torque/sticky wide tires increase loading on the diff mounting points. The consequences of failure are potentially severe, including breakage of the driveshaft. To my knowledge, BMW has been denying repairs under warrenty blaming road hazards/driver abuse.

Regards, Dick Roberts

stanm5 · 27th September 2004, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

I still think this would be a bad idea. Also, this would with 100% certainty reduce the chance of a manual E60 M5.

Gustav,
I must admit that I'm very disapointed by your response. I have no idea if a class action is suitable but as a whole if we simply accept BMW's engineeering shortfalls and quietly continue to pay the bills to remedy those shortfalls I can guarantee you that things will get worse not better. I might even be happy if BMW acknowledged the flaw, came up with a revised part and offered it to us at a discount but somehow I don't see that happening.
Cheers,
Stan

MEnthusiast · 27th September 2004, 19:08

Perhaps we should sue over tire wear as well?

IMHO- if you want to bring a suit, it should be over Bangle designs, idrive and SMG only policies

marinakorp · 27th September 2004, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEnthusiast

Perhaps we should sue over tire wear as well?

or how about not having and LSD on the z8?

JB_UK · 27th September 2004, 21:48

Tongue in cheek doesn't help much when it might be a serious issue that's going to break someones heart and bank balance. I guess you could come from the angle - if you can't afford it then don't look. But we all dream and realising a dream is one of lifes perks. We all know that running a car like this will be expensive. But when your charged £80-100 per hour for labour rates and service costs upto £700 for an inspection2+ what ever else they find and your car has a full BMW service history - you expect a little bit more...

Well at least I do. Sorry for the winge...

Just I was expecting more from BMW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEnthusiast

Perhaps we should sue over tire wear as well?

IMHO- if you want to bring a suit, it should be over Bangle designs, idrive and SMG only policies

MEnthusiast · 27th September 2004, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinakorp

or how about not having and LSD on the z8?

Do you have a Z8? If so be my guest and start one. I will not be signing up. How about a class action to reverse the horrible styling on the Z4? How about the dealers start a class action because they ARE fuming over declining sales.

How about a class action to take the CDV out of the Z8 or for all non M BMWs (or the later model M3s that have it)?

How about better brakes for the M5. How about some more negative camber for the front tires? How about easier to repair wheels?

Back to the topic here: wheres the proof that the clutch is too weak for the M5? I have yet to read real concrete proof. There a lot of incidents, true.

I had 24,000 miles on my 00 when I turned it in and we checked the clutch and it showed wear appropriate for 24,000 miles; my SA said it could go much longer.

look, 4,000 lbs + 400bhp + big sticky tires = you can wear the clutch out pretty fast if youre not careful with your shifts, especially when starting out.

I saw how many fellow M5ers were driving at a few meets: using the clutch to slow the car down while reversing out of a parking spot........

if you want a class action- go get a lawyer. I just hope you and the class shift with SMG like precision.