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Vanos Oil pressure or adjust valves??

15K views 122 replies 9 participants last post by  Jeppe19 
#1 · (Edited)

Checked my solenoids today and cleaned them also. No oil in solenoid cover. Engine was knocking/rattling at startup and after 2 min it was quiet :) but then it started knocking again (Like a worn out camshaft). So i did the Vanos test and you can se on pictures what it says. If the O-rings are bad, can they cause no pressure buildup? Or are the Vanos units totally dead? Its a M5 Built April 2003 with 120k miles....And been standing still for over 3 years..
 

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#2 ·
I would definately remove the boards again and change the o rings, also compete what is referred to on here as Board Maintenance.

The o rings can amongst other things chafe on reinstallation causing sealing issues. If you 've had them out of what is essentially a dry engine after its stood for three years then its plausible that amongst many other simple yet common board maladies have happened.

I would seriously doubt its a failure of the unit itself.

Remove, check and clean, check solder joints and wire security. Remove filter material and clean the noids before activating them with a 9v battery as you blast brake cleaner through them.

Refit with new o rings and its likely that will solve your issue or at least shed light on another possible cause like CPS etc, although it would say at this stage its better and more likely to start with the boards
 
#3 ·
Thanks for your answer. I will order new O rings tomorrow and give it another try. I checked the o-rings and they "looked" and felt ok but you never know. I had a big smile on my face when it was quiet but then pushed the accelerator and sound was back :(. Any problem that could occur if i drive with it? The car runs like a 400hp M5 should and response is nice when you drive it.
 
#4 ·
The knocking sound as you point out is a sign of low or no pressure in the system. If its to the point of it being audible i personally wouldn't drive it like that.

We have had a couple of failures documented where the in unit pump has failed because a shim ring has cut through but its very rare. However it may be adviseable to spend an extra hour each side removing the valve covers and having a look at the units as they are mounted to the timing covers, just to see if everything remains intact and looks OK.

If it does, and you complete the board maintenance and still experience the noise i would suggest looking at both the regulating valve on the top of the thermostat housing and also the units themselve if this checks out OK.

I have simply assumed that the car was OK and then this noise happened AFTER looking at the boards etc, which is why i suggest that course of action first. Am i correct or was the car parked for years becasue of the noises from the vanos units?

Also is the noise coming from both units? I'd find it harder to believe both units have suffered an oil pump failure at the same time which is why i also suggested the valve which is common to both banks.
 
#5 · (Edited)
This car i bought from an auction because i wanted to bring it back to life and keep it for myself. Actually there was electrical failure witch i sorted out (i think). The car would not crank at all from the beginning. So now when i have fixed the first issue this came instead. From beginning i could hear the valve ticking at first start. Then the knocking appeared and been there ever since. Sometimes when cold its totally quiet... I flushed the engine 2 times and with fresh oil both times just to make sure its clean inside. No particles in old oil such as fragments of metal :) So it was knocking before i cleaned the solenoids. And the sound is coming from both Vanos houses (maybe a little more knock on bank 1) And the only faultcode i get from engine is Oxygen sensor bank 2 before cat. And it does sound like 99 M5 with coldstart rattle but the hard rattle never stops....

I will remove valvecovers and take some pictures so you also can se what im doing. This is the last step before i start to restore the car totally so i am really excited to sort the engine problem.

And is it even possible for CPS to make all this trouble?
 
#7 ·
Well, i think i know what caused the knocking sound. The plastic part on the V shaped guide is broken and then you can see the chain touching the housing. But still, i wonder why the Vanos test fails? Could the chainguide also have to do with that? Or is it 2 separate problem?
 

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#8 ·
There are DIY threads for timing chain guide replacement.

The message you got on the VANOS test for checking cam timing is generic. Once you get the solenoid board maintenance and chain guide done repeat the test.

Also you may need an air compressor to clean the tiny filter fragments out of the solenoids to get them functioning well enough to pass the VANOS test.

Good luck!
 
#11 ·
This one's not really a DIY but it has a lot of info.

Do you have access to TIS? It's essential.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/143123-timing-chain-guide-removal-2.html

The cause of this may have been your main chain tensioner failing. That allows the chain to thrash about more and break up the brittle plastic guides.

And yes, I think it is the cause of the VANOS test results. Especially as the bank 1 timing was so badly out of spec (73 deg vs spec of 67 deg). That is the bank that would be most affected by v-guide wear.

Malcolm
 
#20 ·
It just was not possible for Bank 1 Exhaust to get in position (see picture) Had to remove Cranklock, turn counterclockwise and at the same time with spanner 27mm wiggle back and forth to get lock in , and then it was easy for crank to fall in locking position :( I hope i didnt do anything wrong but now ALL are locked

Or am i doing anything wrong?
 

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#21 ·
Jeppe. just so its easy for me and others to look at can we keep contact in the thread? I just think its easier to share pictures and subsequent answers amongst the board as opposed to a text reply only via pm which can make describing this process a little difficult.


With regards to the above pic, was the cam completely in its initial position here? With the solenoid boards out you should be able to move the cam back and forth with the 27mm spanner. note the spanner MUST BE MACHINED to allow enough clearance to allow the vanos to move through its entire range as otherwise the spanner will catch on the cylinder head.


Also there will still be a fair bit of resistance when moving the spanner. It will physically come to a hard stop you will hear when its done this as the piston will hit the cover on the vanos unit. Again as shown in my thread you can remove the cover to see if this is the case.


Note the machined nature of the spanner





Note here the piston cover removed and you can see the piston is about 2mm from the end of the bore which is a good indication the cam is in its initial position





And here you can just about see the helical gear protruding from the cam hub, again this shows initial position







If your cams were as far out as your timing marks suggest and the cam was truly in its initial position it would indicate timing out by quite a margin, which is why I ask as it doesn't seem plausible the car would run anywhere near right in this configuration
 
#24 ·
You won't mate.


As said Jeppe can we talk through this thread from now on so everything is in the one place and its easy and transparent to refer back to and from?


Just makes it easier for me and for others looking who could also help or need it.


I am in work now on a night shift and won't likely be up until mid afternoon tomorrow so if I don't reply until then don't worry I' probably asleep!!!
 
#30 ·
I would think so. No different than the timing chain on a small block V8 being stretched out. The cam, and thus the valves, will not be in time with the crank.
 
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