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Vanos failure question (with picture)

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18K views 55 replies 10 participants last post by  MParallel  
C
#1 ·
Hi everyone, after trying all the usual fixes for the cam position codes (on all four cams), I took off the valve covers, and saw this on the passenger side. Looks like the vanos sealing ring popped out.

Anyone have a vanos fail like this before? What could have caused this? And how would this cause cam position codes; I dont see how this could hang up the vanos movement.

Nothing else appears to be damaged, but I will be removing the vanos later to inspect it more thoroughly. Any ideas on what else to look for while I am in there?

Thanks for any suggestions and ideas.
 

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#2 ·
Yes, I have seen at least one thread about that spacer washer coming out of position. And I remember some discussion about the original circlip that retains the washer having sharp edges that cut into the ring and wear it like that. Is the circlip still in position?

Jamie, didn't you mention this?

I definitely would not drive the car as that can go on to cause serious damage.
 
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#3 ·
I wasnt able to see if the circlip is still there, but I will find out when I take the vanos off.

Do you have any ideas why this would cause cam position codes? I cant see how this would interfere with the vanos operation, so I am concerned that perhaps there is a bigger problem in there somewhere.
 
J
#4 ·
Ooops!

Wasn't me that mentioned it Malcolm, i've not seen that before mate. In fact i'll be checking my units over as they're out on the bench as we speak.

OP, you're over thinking this, its a pretty big obvious failure and the unit simply has to be removed to address it. You'll see soon enough if there's anything untoward other than the seal ring and first thing for me would be finding the circlip which could have jammed things up quite easily giving you the codes
 
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#7 · (Edited)
Oh, man, that's horrible. Really sorry to see that.

You obviously know what you are are doing so you probably know this already but you need to take the timing covers off to see what all that shrapnel did to the sprockets, timing chains and guides.

What warning did you get?

A member on here, Clemster, has a good rep for used parts and good prices.
 
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#8 · (Edited)
Yep, got ahold of Clemster, arranging a buy asap.

So what happened was, driving normally, then got a cel light. Engine was still running fine. I had been getting a code for secondary o2 coming on and off so I didnt think too much of it at first. Drove it again the next day to the gym, and as soon as I parked, I noticed the idle was just a little rough. After I got home, read the codes out, which at first was only the cam position code for one cam, I think a b8. I didnt have dis at the time, so I tried the usual cleaning the vanos solenoids, testing each one, replaced the orings, cps sensors, etc... Each time I tested it after reassembly, the idle got worse. The codes also started to show up on all banks. Then I pulled out the oil filter, and noticed a few skinny, twirly aluminum shavings.

Clearly a serious mechanical issue at this point. Car sat all winter, as this happened in nov. Finally got around to pulling the valve covers yesterday and found this mess.

It hadnt occurred to me to pull the timing covers, as I looked around up top and didnt see anything else damaged, but that is a good idea regardless, thanks for mentioning, otherwise I probably would have skipped that. After collecting all the pieces, the only large piece I am missing is about half of the metal ring the pump rotor sits in. The circlip was was still in place. Of course, the roller bearing blew up too, so I will hopefully find the needles and the half ring in the oil pan when I drop that.

So, for anyone reading this with elusive vanos problems (especially codes on all four cams) that dont go away after doing the solenoids and sensors, STOP driving immediately. You might have a similar surprise waiting for you.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, keeping my fingers crossed that everything else is undamaged.
 
T
#9 ·
This is interesting. About a year ago I purchased a "wrecked" S62 that had the same thing happen, except his had a chunk of metal go underneath the timing chain, making it skip teeth which threw the timing off and bent all the valves on that head.

I found A LOT of metal in the lower pan.
 
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#10 ·
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#11 ·
I think the way mine failed was actually the pump roller bearing first. Then, after the pump welded itself to the vanos housing, thats when it really blew up, and the seal ring was damaged as well. Looking at the seal ring, other than the fact that it is torn, there isnt very much abrasion on it. The circlip was tight, and of the newer design.

Question now is, bearing defect, oiling problem, particulates in oil...? Should be fun trying to figure out.
 
T
#15 · (Edited)
In the case of this engine, the metal was from a lot of sources but primarily the wave washer that came out, needle bearings, ball bearings, cage pieces, etc.

Edit - I re-read my full original post, specifically what got munched I'm sure was the wave washer after the snap ring came out.
 
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C
#14 ·
Interesting...

Do you think it would be possible if there was some restriction in the oil pump outlet, that this could have hydraulically locked the piston, and caused accelerated wear?

Are the braided hoses, that thing on the thermostat housing (regulator?), and the accumulator all part of the pump outlet flow?

I think I will take all that out and give it a good inspection.
 
#18 ·
I'm glad I found this topic. Of course not in the sense of your bad luck, but seeing this as the exact same thing happened to my car, although mines a (Euro) E36 M3 3.2 (double vanos).

This happened to me last year. And the car is just back on the road for a week. I searched high and low on every M3 forum, but I have yet to see someone with this encounter. That's why I'm glad to have found this, as this makes it a bit less of a complete mystery.

One day I was driving to work, town speed, when I lifted the throttle and all of a sudden when back to idle the car made incredible loud metallic noises and it was rocking back and fort like hell. Since I was nearly at my work and had no idea the vanos unit had destroyed itself I continued to drive and parked it there.

After hooking up my GT1 I got the 162 Camshaft Synchronisation error. Not knowing at that time (pretty dumb looking back) I could have known the cam sensors and each solenoid have their own fault code. So later I realized that changing a cam sensor was throwing away money.

So I thought the vanos unit was just dead and I ordered the Beisan seal kit. It was only at this time when I took the valve cover off and pulled the vanos unit from the block, I realized what had happened. The moment I pulled it, I saw all kind of loose metal and I'm sure some dropped down the chain that very moment.

I thought I'd die. With me taking 9 years to find the very best M3 left with just 50k miles on it, I thought I was looking at a wrecked engine.

I took the car of the road and it wasn't untill spring this year I went back at it. What I thought had happened was that some kind of *$#& mechanic had once worked on the vanos unit and installed a circlip/lockring that was totally unsuitable. It was barely thicker than the groove it sits in. Specially after seeing completely different circlips on many pictures on the internet.

I now realize that some units use a very different circlip/lockring which was only confirmed to me this past week when I went some a friend who is working on his vanos unit, only to see the exact same circlip (which I think can't even be called a circlip) in his unit. Oh well, at least this leaves out any stupid mechanic error. On the other hand it only makes the mistery bigger and what did happen? And then it could happen again?

Since the unit was destroyed I luckely found a cheap replacement unit because of no solenoids, but of course I could use mine.
Turned out the new unit is the (I believe) Sachs unit and not the original Rolce Royce unit. This unit has the much bigger circlip.
I do wonder if that circlip actually holds in the big needle roller bearing the pump (tabs) ride on. It must be press fit in. But that is what I thought happened. That the circlip was wrong and allowed play in the bearing race, then destroying itself. But since that is pretty much ruled out, what did cause this? A stuck tab in the pumpdisc seems plausible, but if that can happen...

So now the unit with the better (I think?) circlip which gave me some peace of mind...untill now really.

I already had picked out pieces of bearing race, the black plastic disc that covers the needle bearing (looks to be from metal on the M5 unit) and what not.

The pumpdisc now has tabs welded to it. One was destroyed. Complete bearing disintegrated, totalling the vanos body. When I pulled the sump two weeks ago, the front sump was full of metal shavings and needle rollers. There also was what looked like some piece of plastic (as in plastic bag) material. No clue what this is from. Could this have become stick inside the pumpdisc/bearing causing this?

Car is now back on the road. everything cleaned that we (me and a friend) could possibly access. Vanos rebuilt with Beisan seal kit and solenoids upgraded with the E39 M5 seals and removed screen filters.

Now lets hope it stays good. Fingers crossed.
 
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#19 ·
You know, I have looked all over my engine, and not being able to find anything, combined with the seemingly few reports of this failure, leads me to believe this really was some sort of manufacturing oversight, perhaps some residual packing material left in the engine in your case (the plastic bag), or perhaps in my case, a malformed roller. I dont really see how the circlip and the circular washer could cause this, as if they were loose enough to allow the vanos pump rotor to vibrate excessively, I would think that this problem would be more widespread. I also doubt that the pump tab seizes first, because if it did, I would expect to see some damage to the tabs that fit in the rotor.

Looking at how the pump rotor fits in the race, and the race rides on the roller bearings, it seems that in order for the pump rotor to weld itself to the race, the race would first have to seize to the vanos housing, after the roller bearing fails. Then the rotor actually spins in the race, rapidly heating the pump tabs, and eventually welding those to the race. Then the rotor and tabs self destruct. So, the failure ultimately begins with the failure of the roller bearing. Why this fails, is the question.

I definitely made sure to clean out my replacement vanos really well, and made sure it spun smoothly with no gritty feeling before installing it.

Good luck to you with your replacement vanos, keeping my fingers crossed for both our sakes.
 
T
#22 ·
The engine I posted about had those same bearing pieces in the oil pan...
 
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#24 ·
Me? I bought the engine in "broken" condition. The owner had a warning when the engine stopped running. :eek
 
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#25 ·
I am starting to wonder about all the stories about dealers who just replace the vanos when they get a code, and how many of them were not solenoids or orings, but these bearing failures.

In any case though, there doesnt seem to be any sort of proactive maintenance that can be done to the vanos, other than the usual normal maintenance.
 
S
#26 ·
I this issue once as well, when the engine had 60k. They way I found out was not with codes. When i started the car I heard a noise that I wasn't familiar with. As I listed to the engine i heard something weird on the pass side Vanos. Turned off the car and popped the oil cap and what do I see. The washer was sheered off and was sitting on top of the chain. So I cut the washer and pulled it out. Took to car to mechanic who i've been close with ever since. He ended up buying a core engine and using the vanos off that block. He also inspected the driver side vanos as well to be safe. He has been doing all my big projects that I cannot do at home.

But yes, it did freak me out when I saw the washer. This was a time when I knew very little about the car. Let me see if I can find some pictures
 
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#32 ·
Yes Bank 1. Engine had 150k on it. I "think" the engine was an '02.
 
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