Survey: Braking in Gear or Neutral? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

khoality · 17th May 2004, 06:26

Folks,

I tried to search the board but could not find anything on this. Here is the situation:

I used to always downshift and brake at the same time due to better braking power, less brake pad wear and the coolness of the engine sound. But I was told that you either wear your clutch or your brake pad of which the clutch is more expensive than brake pads. So I started to brake in neutral. But recently I found out this article on Men's Health Magazine May 2004 under Crankshaft Don's column.

Q: Why do people say it's bad to coast in neutral?
A: Because it costs money. Coasting in neutral, whether the car has a stick shift or is automatic, improves gas mileage by a hair. But it also levies a heavier burden on your brakes, leading to premature (and expensive) maintenance. Constantly reengaging an automatic transmission at speed also causes gear wear. So let your transmission provide engine braking as the engineers intended.

What are your thoughts? Did the engineers really intended braking in gear? Do you brake in neutral going from 60-0 MPH or do you downshift while braking from 60-0 MPH? I know the heal-toe technique but sometimes, I'm just lazy. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

m5am · 17th May 2004, 06:55

When I am driving I will not put the car in neutral, but I put the clutch in to brake if I am under 2k rpms.

BmwNut · 17th May 2004, 07:16

It depends on what you are talking about. For maximum braking, clutch goes in. But if you are driving around town, leave the clutch out when you brake. Not only does this save you the need to reengauge the gear if you need to start going again, it can also get you out of an emergency if you need to pin the throttle for any reason.
When I slow down, I heel and toe down to the best gear for the speed, or as speed permits the gear that will give me best power on corner exit.
The way I teach people is keep the car in gear until you are ready to stop. Slowing down and grabbing lower gears without heel and toeing is hard on the clutch (relative to leaving it in gear, clutch out), and limits what you can do in a pinch. If you dont need a lower gear after slowing down, just leave it in gear till you almost stop. If you need the lower gear, heel and toe.

chunpng · 17th May 2004, 08:01

Khoa,

A few thoughts.

When in gear, no matter what gear you are in, a manual car will always give you a little engine-braking (more if you are in lower gear), so it is always more gentle on your brakes to brake while in gear. Braking in neutral offers NO engine braking whatsoever.

Some people down shift, and rely solely on engine braking to slow down. This saves some brakes but puts more wear on the clutch and engine, and brakes are definitely cheaper than clutch and engine.

If you need to slow from 60 mph (6th gear) down to 20 mph, you'll definitely need to down- shift at the end. You can do one of the following:

(1) Brake in 6th until 20 mph, then shift into second and then gas up.
(2) shift into neutral, brake till 20, shift into 2nd, then gas up.
(3) Do a series of down shifts to secomd gear (if you have enough time/distance), until car slows to 20, then gas up.

I used to do (3). Now I do mostly one. I NEVER do (2) as I want to be in gear at all times in case of emergency.

CP

CP

Richard in NC · 17th May 2004, 08:37

Around town, I'll leave the clutch out while braking and not downshift. If I'm on a faster road and in 5th, I may downshift to 3rd as I get < 1500 rpm. If I am on the highway, I'll drop from 6th to 4th on the offramp and bring the car the rest of the way to the stop in gear. I'll touch the gas during the downshift but alow the engine braking to help slow the car. Good or bad, it has yet to wear out anything prematurely in the 5 manual trans cars I've owned.

MEnthusiast · 17th May 2004, 13:44

I usually leave the clutch engaged until rpms hit somewhere around 1k and then I disengage. So I coast the last little bit. This is for stopping. For slowing down it all depends. If its clear I will need some good acceleration after braking, I will downshift first. FWIW, the guys at the DE told us we don't need engine braking with modern cars since brakes are now so good and we can save wear and tear on the drive train.

CSBM5 · 17th May 2004, 13:44

By the way, regarding saving fuel, ever since Motronic hit BMWs (

...guess this means since 1983 in the 5 and 7 series, dang, time flies!!), when the throttle is closed and the engine rpm is above about 1200, there is NO fuel flowing into the engine. It is totally shut off. So you will save a lot more fuel if you don't slow down in neutral. On cars with the MPG guage, you can clearly see this in action including resumption of fuel consumption around 1200-1400 rpm area as the car slows down.

khoality · 18th May 2004, 00:37

Thanks guys for all your help! You all have been very helpful. This board and it's members are such a valuable asset. If you are ever in houston, let me know. I'll buy a round of drinks and show you how I downshift.

Terk · 18th May 2004, 00:46

I went to a Porsche Advanced Drivers School a few years back and one of the first things they talked about in the class room was that brakes were cheaper to replace than the clutch/engine so use them.

Regards,

Terk.

BmwNut · 18th May 2004, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by khoality

Thanks guys for all your help! You all have been very helpful. This board and it's members are such a valuable asset. If you are ever in houston, let me know. I'll buy a round of drinks and show you how I downshift.

Hopefully not in that order...

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