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          Old 5th May 2004, 16:16   #1 (permalink)
          Black B10V8
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          RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences


          Just read some of the threads regarding RMS and the disappointing experiences people have had. It strikes me what a great resource this site is and it also reminds me that there are quite a few similar operations out there. I thought I would jot down some thoughts based on my own experience that might be helpful in reducing the risk of ending up in trouble.

          I believe most people are honest and that most businesses are operated professionally and honestly. It is therefore easy to forget that some people and businesses are not. It is useful keep in mind and be reminded some times (as by the RMS threads) that:

          - Some people are poor at organising and managing their business

          - Some people lack the technical and professional proficiency to adequately provide the services they offer

          - Some people are simply dishonest or will spiral into dishonesty in trying to "fix" a situation they have gotten into

          - Some people are all of the above

          If you end up dealing with them, you might be in trouble.

          In order to reduce the risk of ending up with these operations (I will refer to them as "con-tractors") or at least reducing the potential damage, the following thoughts might be helpful. It is clear that depending on situation and circumstances much of this may not be applicable, practical or warranted.


          1. Try to identify more than one alternative provider or the service.

          Comparing different operations critically is often a great help and "mind opener" in flushing out potential weaknesses and problems.

          2. Search the net carefully for opinions.

          Critical opinions might not always be warranted or relevant, but should at least lead to further caution.

          3. Ask for references.

          Any experienced contractor should be able to provide you with a number or reference projects and contact persons. Look into these and CONTACT the reference persons to ask them about their experiences.

          4. Get a detailed description of the work to be performed.

          Penetrate any areas where you don't understand or where the description appears vague. This may in practice be difficult depending on your own technical knowledge but try to at least pick up vagueness and attempts to avoid answering.

          5. Put it in writing!

          The importance of this can not be over emphasised. Even if an overly legalistic approach may not be practical, the basic issues should be set out such as:
          - scope of work
          - performance targets (if relevant)
          - items and materials
          - schedule of works
          - payment schedule
          If you have nothing in writing, the con-tractor will eat you for lunch.

          6. Supervise and control

          How much supervision is practical and reasonable will vary, but for a larger job you should at least agree on progress reports in conjunction with the schedule of works (with digicams and internet everywhere, photo documentation is not unreasonable). The awareness of supervision will help keeping some people focused and honest. Your best means of excercising control is via the payment schedule. Try to make sure that progress is documented and verified before releasing payments.

          7. Be wary of changes!

          No matter how well you have put your original deal in writing, it can become useless if you agree to changes in scope and/or timing without clearly regulating these changes and the consequences thereof. The con-tractor will always try to lead you astray here.


          The con-tractor and his tools

          For some reason, I have had to deal with far too many con-tractors. These are some observations and reflections from those encounters:

          - The first impression

          Don't place too much value on good first impressions (bad ones will on the other hand often be accurate and relevant). Con-tractors are experts at giving good first impressions and quickly reaching an intimate level of personal sympathy and trust. The con-tractor will often try to establish and develop a level of friendship with his victim.

          - Con-tractors are unpleasant

          Not at all! Some, maybe. To ALL people ALL of the time, of course not. Generally, they end up as an unpleasant experience for SOME of the people SOME of the time. They may very well have completely different private and business personalities/ethics. The most mercenary con-tractors I have known have been highly intelligent, talented, creative and pleasant family men. That's what makes them so dangerous, you can't spot them but they have already spotted you and are using all that talent and intelligence to set you up.

          - I am a good judge of character

          Maybe (some people certainly are), but if you think you are a PERFECT judge of character...

          - Experience

          The amount of con-tractors that manage to stay in business never seizes to amaze me. Apparently there are enough people out there for some very shady outfits to always find new victims. A long business track record is usually a sign of a well managed business, but not always.

          - Changes

          The con-tractor wants as much confusion as possible. Changes to the original order are his best tool. He may sell you on upgrades and expansion of the scope of works, and he may introduce the need for changes (problems with your engine/equipment, parts out of stock, etc.). This can, and usually is, prefectly legit, but be wary.

          - Excuses

          The con-tractor has an arsenal of excuses that he applies as skillfully as Tiger Woods his golf clubs. Good excuses are core tools in getting you to accept delays, changes and further payments. There are several types and stages of excuses such as "third party", "sympathy" and "remorse". Typically, the con-tractor blames a third party (a subcontractor, your car, a supplier, etc.) or something further out of his control such as natural disasters, plane crashes or political turmoil. When those excuses eventually run thin, he might move on to personal matters (still out of his control) intended to generate sympathy such as illness or accidents. Eventually, he might progress onto remorse and some personal responsibility (Sorry, I messed up. But now everything will be fine...).

          - Soon...

          Combined with virtually all excuses is the promise of "soon...". "Soon..." is also known as "tomorrow", "next week", "shortly" or "quickly". "Soon..." is an instrumental component in dragging you and your money deeper into the pit.

          - Evidence

          The con-tractor is very skilled at avoiding producing anything that could later be used as evidence and very good at disarming anything that might have been evidence (see "changes" above). He will either avoid the written word or apply it very carefully, even deceptively.

          - The finale - loss of interest

          As long as the con-tractor thinks you are on the hook, he will give you attention (though he may become progressively harder to get hold of, for which he always has an "excuse"). Your communications with him may often turn out to cover more personal matters, "my friend", than actual technical issues. Don't worry, once he concludes that he's definitely lost you (=no more money, +problems) he will completely loose interest and re-direct his attention to new victims . From now on, he will be very hard to get hold of. He might even show what is often his true face and become downright unpleasant at this point.



          Don't know if this was really of any use or value, but at least it's helped me pass some time whilst waiting for my car to be serviced. (As a side note, I was just told that the wrong brake discs were sent from Munich, so it will not be ready today...)
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          Old 5th May 2004, 18:59   #2 (permalink)
          ernie
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          Re: RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          b10v8,

          you make some very good points. having been here for the RMS ordeal from beginning to end however, I can tell you that the primary factor in allowing this to happen was that many people did not heed the warnings that several board members offered. simply put, people hear what they want to hear. while everyone was caught up in a wave of RMS euphoria those who criticized RMS were criticized themselves for making irresponsible comments. if these people's experiences had been more thoroughly examined, this could have been avoided.

          ernie
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          Old 5th May 2004, 21:18   #3 (permalink)
          Adam
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          Re: RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          Good wite up indeed, very indepth

          all thebest
          adam
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          Old 23rd May 2004, 00:37   #4 (permalink)
          shadowman
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          Re: RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          My point exactly, read, research, and then decide.

          Do not decide, read, and then research.
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          Old 23rd May 2004, 01:10   #5 (permalink)
          kees
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          Re: RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          interesting read. Thanks for the putting the time into putting your experiences into writing
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          Old 23rd May 2004, 01:13   #6 (permalink)
          shadowman
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          Re: RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by kees
          interesting read. Thanks for the putting the time into putting your experiences into writing
          It is this platform that you and Gustav maintain that allows the timely sharing of such information.

          My most sincere thanks to you guys as I feel certain is does from so many others.

          Keep up the great board......it is the best

          Last edited by shadowman; 23rd May 2004 at 01:14. Reason: spelling
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          Old 23rd May 2004, 01:30   #7 (permalink)
          kees
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          Re: RMS and addressing the risk of similar experiences

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by shadowman
          It is this platform that you and Gustav maintain that allows the timely sharing of such information.
          It's Gustav's messageboard - I only spend some time here.

          Nice to have some appreciation though - thanks! Sad that it's one of the ex-sponsors giving these problems...or according to BlackV8s message it would be typical of this type of situation.
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