Dealer visit this Monday: what is reasonable and what is not? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Redshift · 10th January 2004, 21:06

Hi folks:

I'm taking my car to my local dealer (I bought it out of state last month) for the first time and have a long list of issues. There are some that I am curious about:

1) The headlights seem grossly mis-aimed. Should the selling dealer have checked that or is that not required? The local dealer wants labor cost ($20) to aim them properly. Feeling that I just bought this car from BMW as a CPO car I was not expecting to have to spend money on it so soon. But wait, there's more...

2) They want $80 to program my key fobs for the "custom user features" - I realize that this is only available for free to the original car purchaser, however I have been told that it is a simple procedure that takes only a few minutes and not an hour. Is $80 really reasonable?

3) The driver's side tire is wearing very badly on the outside edge. This car has not seen a track and has done 95% of its driving with me so far (10,900 miles when I bought it, and it now has 14,200 on it) on the highway. I feel that it may be mis-aligned somehow, or that something in the suspension may be wrong. Again, having just paid good money for a CPO car I was not expecting to have to buy new tires so quickly - should this be something I should rightfully expect them to take care of?

4) My speedometer is off by at least 5MPH. I have verified it on the highway and around town using other cars and those radar signs used by the police. The signs indicate the exact correct speed when I drive by them in my other cars, but the M5 is off by a lot. Can they fix this?

5) The car seems to "wander" on a flat, smooth highway without any exterior wind causing it. Suspension? Alignment?

6) My sound system makes certain strange rattling and "tinny" noises that are not coming from the music itself, but only in certain DSP modes with certain music playing. Like some of the preset DSP modes while listening to "Hotel California" by the Eagles. Is this a known issue that they can fix?

This is not the entire list but these are the ones I'm questioning. I bought the car out of state and drove it home over the week or so after I bought it, and then didn't drive it much around town until the family came for the holidays, when we did probably 15+ hours of all highway driving. So now is really the only time I've had to sit down and make note of all these issues.

Is it reasonable to expect them to fix the headlight aim, rattles, tire/suspension problem, and "wandering" problem? Or am I just expecting too much?

It shouldn't make any difference, but I did buy a brand new 330Cic from this local dealer in the summer of 2002. They know they have my loyalty if they treat me well, but I'm just trying to prepare for my visit in a reasonable way. My expectation of a CPO car (especially from the dealer where I got it as they have an excellent reputation) was that it would be virtually "like new" and would need nothing in the way of maintenance or repair for a while.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

John H · 10th January 2004, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redshift

1) The headlights seem grossly mis-aimed. Should the selling dealer have checked that or is that not required? The local dealer wants labor cost ($20) to aim them properly. Feeling that I just bought this car from BMW as a CPO car I was not expecting to have to spend money on it so soon. But wait, there's more...

I agree with you, the "C" in CPO means that it should have been put through a thorough inspection to find (and fix) things like that. The following is taken directly from the BMW CPO brochure "Every car or SAV selected for the Certified Pre-Owned program must go through a rigorous inspection process. Everything from engine performance to the operation of the glovebox light is checked. All scheduled maintenance is brought up to date. If something isn’t working properly or up to standards, it’s repaired or replaced." It sure sounds like misaligned headlights would be covered under that description.

Quote:

2) They want $80 to program my key fobs for the "custom user features" - I realize that this is only available for free to the original car purchaser, however I have been told that it is a simple procedure that takes only a few minutes and not an hour. Is $80 really reasonable?

This sounds like nickel & dime crap to me. They should offer to do it for free one time with the caveat that if you are going to go back every week asking for changes, they might start charging you. Get a list of all the key options and ask them to make all the changes you want just this one time. I can email you a .pdf with the whole list of key options that came with my 2001.

Quote:

3) The driver's side tire is wearing very badly on the outside edge. This car has not seen a track and has done 95% of its driving with me so far (10,900 miles when I bought it, and it now has 14,200 on it) on the highway. I feel that it may be mis-aligned somehow, or that something in the suspension may be wrong. Again, having just paid good money for a CPO car I was not expecting to have to buy new tires so quickly - should this be something I should rightfully expect them to take care of?

I think they should definitely check the alignment for you. Can you check the inside edge of the tire? With such wide tires, it can take a real effort to look at the inner edges. If the inner edge is fine, then it sounds like the alignment has to be off. Was there even wear on that tire when you picked it up?

Quote:

4) My speedometer is off by at least 5MPH. I have verified it on the highway and around town using other cars and those radar signs used by the police. The signs indicate the exact correct speed when I drive by them in my other cars, but the M5 is off by a lot. Can they fix this?

I think you are out of luck on this one as many people, myself included, have found that the speedometer is off by more than it seems like it should be. Does your speedometer read high, for example, if the radar sign says you are going 45 and your speedo says you are going 50? I think that is pretty common with M5's.

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5) The car seems to "wander" on a flat, smooth highway without any exterior wind causing it. Suspension? Alignment?

Mine will do this, but only very occasionally, when there are noticable ruts in the road.

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6) My sound system makes certain strange rattling and "tinny" noises that are not coming from the music itself, but only in certain DSP modes with certain music playing. Like some of the preset DSP modes while listening to "Hotel California" by the Eagles. Is this a known issue that they can fix?

Try turning dowm the "Echo" and "Room" (I think) functions - they can make for some strange sounds.

Let them know that you will give them all 5's on the BMWNA service survey, but you expect them to live up to all the big talk in the CPO brochure.

Good luck.

Redshift · 10th January 2004, 22:53

Hi John:

Thanks.

The inside edge of the tire is wearing fine. It's just the outside that is rather bald. The passenger side tire and rear tires are all just fine.

The tire had some slight outside edge wear when I picked it up, but I figured this would have been fixed with an alignment or suspension work under CPO inspection. I guess I shouldn't have assumed...

Thank you for your input

MEnthusiast · 10th January 2004, 22:58

I agree with John H's comments.

I would add that BMW has a spec for speedo error and its something like 3% + +/- 5mph. So... if youre going an indicated 100, you could really be going 92mph. (3%x100=3 + 5= 8mph). I dont know if thats the right formula, but I remember being surprised that the error could be so great.

While John is right about the $80 being nickle and dime stuff, you might want to try to compromise by agreeing the key fob programming is an extra that youre willing to cover, but they really have to honor the CPO stuff. Things like headlight misalignment and, well, alignment misalignment should be remedied at no cost to you, IMHO. Yes, unfortunately it seems your alignment is off. You might want to really look around the car for evidence of paint overspray. If it exists the car might have been involved in an accident.

Redshift · 10th January 2004, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEnthusiast

I agree with John H's comments.

I would add that BMW has a spec for speedo error and its something like 3% + +/- 5mph. So... if youre going an indicated 100, you could really be going 92mph. (3%x100=3 + 5= 8mph). I dont know if thats the right formula, but I remember being surprised that the error could be so great.

While John is right about the $80 being nickle and dime stuff, you might want to try to compromise by agreeing the key fob programming is an extra that youre willing to cover, but they really have to honor the CPO stuff. Things like headlight misalignment and, well, alignment misalignment should be remedied at no cost to you, IMHO. Yes, unfortunately it seems your alignment is off. You might want to really look around the car for evidence of paint overspray. If it exists the car might have been involved in an accident.

I mentioned in another thread that the lower front fascia on the driver's side only appears to have been repainted. No other evidence exists, leading me to believe that it was probably a minor incident and was repaired with a re-paint However, that the clear coat is peeling so soon is disconcerting. I realize that the front of the car will take abuse from rocks and road debris, but I was not expecting a non OEM finish on it anywhere, and I was unpleasantly surprised when I found it.

I don't have any recourse on this issue, though, since the selling dealer could make the point that they never saw the repainted area and didn't even know about it. I would have had to point it out during the inspection when I bought the car to have any recourse. I didn't notice because I had just flown in from home and had a long drive back ahead of me, so I quickly inspected as much as I could, then signed the papers and drove home. My fault, I guess.

RRoberts · 10th January 2004, 23:19

Redshift,

Of the items you have mentioned, the greatest concern if I were in your place would be the uneven tire wear at the driver's front. It is a classic symptom of too much positive camber and/or too much toe in. Toe is easy to adjust on an E39, camber isn't. Your car needs to get on an alignment rack and check the existing alignment of all four wheels. The fun will begin if any problem detected can't be adjusted out.

Here's hoping your luck is good.

Regards, Dick Roberts

gra8fuldd ed · 11th January 2004, 00:52

RedShift:

My advice to you is "Kill them with Kindness!"

Do NOT go in to the service dept. and do what so many others have done and that is : They start demanding "This and That" with Both Guns Blazing and in the end that tactic gets them Nowhere.

I am sure that if you've purchased cars from this dealership in the past ... then you MUST have a relationship with a specific Service Advisor ... Go to that person ... make Nice on How comje it's been so long since you've seen them, etc. and tell them a few very small problems you have with the GREATEST ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE. Almost as if it's not worth mentioning ... BUT!!! Now you mention away.

I'm sure in the end you will be statisfied.

Let us know how it turns out.

Redshift · 11th January 2004, 01:02

Forgot to mention, when the speed sign says I'm going X MPH, my speedometer indicates X-5 MPH.

Richard in NC · 11th January 2004, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redshift

Forgot to mention, when the speed sign says I'm going X MPH, my speedometer indicates X-5 MPH.

If your speedo is indicating less than the actual MPH, that is different than most BMWs and not right. This would mean that if you drive at the speed limit, the car is going faster and you could get a ticket. BMW could be liable. This is why most BMWs are off in the other direction to ensure that you are going slower than indicated and BMW can't get sued. There are places tha can certify a speedometer but I'd be surprised if BMW covers that cost.

PS: I agree with all of the comments above. My 540i wore the inside of the left front in 8000 miles. Being brand new, BMW covered the alignment but I had to buy a new tire.

Redshift · 15th January 2004, 18:02

They are blaming the tire wear on bad alignment and want me to pay $100 to check the alignment. They won't cover the headlight aiming because "it's not under warranty after 12,000 miles" even though I bought the car with 10,900 and the appointment time was after I reached 14,000 miles. I also paid $80 for key fob programming

The clutch was replaced. I tried being kind and agreeing to the $80 charge so that they would cover the rest, but it didn't work. So far I'm pretty disappointed.