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Old 3rd November 2003, 21:54   #1
FAST 5
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Exclamation My visit to the local DINAN dealer (long)....................

Hi Guys,
I had the Dinan front strut tower brace and the rear shock tower brace installed this past Friday. The braces give the car a stronger/meaner appearance. Im not sure the car will truly benefit from the front & rear braces but it can't hurt. It is definately eye candy, just like the Active Auto Werkes CAI system. I have the A.A. CAI setup on my car and again, Im not certain it actually does anything for our cars but it sure looks good! In my opinion, your paying/buying the two mentioned items more for its appearance factor than anything else. Back to the front & rear braces. My local Dinan dealer installs these in so many M5 cars that they can practically do the install job blind folded. They completed the entire install task in 2 hours flat! It was a very clean and professional install job! The front took a little less than 30 minutes and the rear brace was approx. 90 minutes. I timed the technician. Now here is my question for anyone who cares to provide me with their opinion/input.
Even though this dealer banged out the job very fast, they still charged me the scheduled fee from the Dinan labor chart, meaning they charged me/billed me more time than they actually spent on my car. I was annoyed at this. Am I wrong to think that they should have charged me only the actual time they spent on my car? Or is it their right to charge me the allowable time fee based on the Dinan labor chart? Is the fact that this dealer can do the job a lot faster than what Dinan quotes the labor time as being, to their advantage, so they have the right to charge the allowable labor fee? Please let me know, okay.
Also, the Dinan dealer was doing a complete S2 package, on another M5 car. This Dinan dealer seems to be doing Dinan S2 packages every time I walk into their shop. They install S2 packages like I-HOP sells pancakes! I honestly can't belive this but this appears to be the case! The technician doing the S2 package showed me the Dinan headers, as he was installing them. We began to speak about "other" aftermarket headers being available for our M5 cars. The technician stated that yes, companies such as SUPERSPRINT do have headers but do not have the proper software to re-program the DME. He said that without a doubt, the M5 engine would actually lose horse power if one simply bolted on the aftermarket headers and did not
re-program the motor to operate with the new headers. The technician stated that the headers would actually make the engine "LEAN ITSELF OUT", thus losing power. This made me think of EVOSPORT, POWERCHIP and BEASTPOWER. Now if POWERCHIP has actually made an agreement/contract of some type with EVOSPORT that will more than likely resolve any issues of our motors leaning out from the addition of an aftermarket header such as the SUPERSPRINT headers. So, if this is in fact the case, what becomes of BEASTPOWER
Beastpower is selling HAMANN headers but according to Brad of EVOSPORT, POWERCHIP will not share/sell their newly developed header software to BEASTPOWER. So without a GOOD software, the aftermarket headers are useless, true????
If this is true, is BEASTPOWER sh!t out of luck, when it comes to selling his Hamann headers??? I am not being scarcastic with this question, but very serious! I like Daniel of BEASTPOWER and think he is a nice person. We've been told that Hamann software is total junk. So what could a guy like BEASTPOWER do?
Any thoughts, comments and opinions on this would be appeciated. Thank you.
Robert
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Old 3rd November 2003, 22:13   #2
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I find it very difficult to believe that Powerchip will not use all knowledge at-hand to create custom software for ANY AND ALL of it's customers.

Me thinks if you go to Powerchip and tell them you want a "chip" for your car, and oh, yea - it has Hamann headers, they're going to give you what programming they think will work best for your car. Brad at Evosport might disagree, but as a practical matter, my quess is PC will deliver the goods. Maybe PC will state that they can't use the exact "super-de-duper designed-especially-for SS" mapping, but I just don't buy it. It will be equivalent for all PRACTICAL purposes and will work well.

I have no factual basis for these ideas, JMO-FWIW


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Old 3rd November 2003, 22:43   #3
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Enjoyed the comments for which I would like to add the following without meaning to stir any combative feelings.

The OEM exhaust, paricularly the manifolds are ridiculously restrictive and installing Hamann, SuperSprint, Dinan's, etc will all offer a vast improvement with or without software modifications. Without attempting to be to technical the OEM system is designed to monitor the engine through a variety of sensors and will make adjustments for changes such as the need for more fuel etc. (within the + or - paramenters set within the DME). Now does this mean that additonal tweaking can't be received by further modifing the maps within the DME, absolutely not. in fact a knowledgeable programer can do some remarkable things to the way the car responds. But what it does mean is that your M5 will run stronger with a better designed exhaust even if managed with the OEM software. Yes, the Hamann software proved to be less than solicited but even with simply bolting on their system gains of over 30HP were seen immediately. As for Dinan, it remains my understanding that they do very little if anything to the basic fuel and timing maps in the OEM DME.

In closing, it sounded to me like the technican was selling a product/service rather than simply answering your question and giving a knowledge based answer. It maybe that he/she simply does not know other than what he/she was told by Dinan..

Just my opinion.
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Old 4th November 2003, 01:18   #4
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Re: My visit to the local DINAN dealer (long)....................

Quote:
Originally posted by FAST 5
Hi Guys,
I had the Dinan front strut tower brace and the rear shock tower brace installed this past Friday. The braces give the car a stronger/meaner appearance. Im not sure the car will truly benefit from the front & rear braces but it can't hurt. It is definately eye candy, just like the Active Auto Werkes CAI system. I have the A.A. CAI setup on my car and again, Im not certain it actually does anything for our cars but it sure looks good! In my opinion, your paying/buying the two mentioned items more for its appearance factor than anything else. Back to the front & rear braces. My local Dinan dealer installs these in so many M5 cars that they can practically do the install job blind folded. They completed the entire install task in 2 hours flat! It was a very clean and professional install job! The front took a little less than 30 minutes and the rear brace was approx. 90 minutes. I timed the technician. Now here is my question for anyone who cares to provide me with their opinion/input.
Even though this dealer banged out the job very fast, they still charged me the scheduled fee from the Dinan labor chart, meaning they charged me/billed me more time than they actually spent on my car. I was annoyed at this. Am I wrong to think that they should have charged me only the actual time they spent on my car? Or is it their right to charge me the allowable time fee based on the Dinan labor chart? Is the fact that this dealer can do the job a lot faster than what Dinan quotes the labor time as being, to their advantage, so they have the right to charge the allowable labor fee? Please let me know, okay.
Also, the Dinan dealer was doing a complete S2 package, on another M5 car. This Dinan dealer seems to be doing Dinan S2 packages every time I walk into their shop. They install S2 packages like I-HOP sells pancakes! I honestly can't belive this but this appears to be the case! The technician doing the S2 package showed me the Dinan headers, as he was installing them. We began to speak about "other" aftermarket headers being available for our M5 cars. The technician stated that yes, companies such as SUPERSPRINT do have headers but do not have the proper software to re-program the DME. He said that without a doubt, the M5 engine would actually lose horse power if one simply bolted on the aftermarket headers and did not
re-program the motor to operate with the new headers. The technician stated that the headers would actually make the engine "LEAN ITSELF OUT", thus losing power. This made me think of EVOSPORT, POWERCHIP and BEASTPOWER. Now if POWERCHIP has actually made an agreement/contract of some type with EVOSPORT that will more than likely resolve any issues of our motors leaning out from the addition of an aftermarket header such as the SUPERSPRINT headers. So, if this is in fact the case, what becomes of BEASTPOWER
Beastpower is selling HAMANN headers but according to Brad of EVOSPORT, POWERCHIP will not share/sell their newly developed header software to BEASTPOWER. So without a GOOD software, the aftermarket headers are useless, true????
If this is true, is BEASTPOWER sh!t out of luck, when it comes to selling his Hamann headers??? I am not being scarcastic with this question, but very serious! I like Daniel of BEASTPOWER and think he is a nice person. We've been told that Hamann software is total junk. So what could a guy like BEASTPOWER do?
Any thoughts, comments and opinions on this would be appeciated. Thank you.
Robert
Robert:

To answer your question regarding ... "They still charged me the scheduled fee from the Dinan labor chart, meaning they charged me/billed me more time than they actually spent on my car."

It all depends on what you agreed upon when you brought in your car.

Robert ... Did you agree to pay a pre-determined flat fee? If you did ... Then you have No Complaints. If you agreed to pay "Time and Material" and that is what is written on your service order ... Then you have a case and you should take it up with the Service Manager.

As far as Daniel, Powerchip and Evosport ... That is not any of my concern. I do not know "Exactly" what is Evosport's Deal with Powerchip or with Supersprint and I don't really care to know ... UNLESS ... I decided to buy a set of headers from Evosport, which, as of now if I would buy a set of SS Headers ... I would buy them from Sam at Renn-Sport. He's gives me great and honest service ... he gives me the absolute BEST price, BAR NONE, PLUS ... we enjoy sitting around ... smoking a couple of cubanos cigars and talkin' Bimmer Talk!

To Me ... that's what is really important.


As far as Daniel, Powerchip and Evosport ... They are all in business and I'm sure ... In the End ... it will work out to everyone's satisfaction. I just HOPE that during that process ... that No Customers will have to bare the brunt of any misdealings!

I also think that the more that WE, as customers, stay out of their politics ... the better it will be for all.
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Old 4th November 2003, 01:34   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by shadowman
Enjoyed the comments for which I would like to add the following without meaning to stir any combative feelings.

The OEM exhaust, paricularly the manifolds are ridiculously restrictive and installing Hamann, SuperSprint, Dinan's, etc will all offer a vast improvement with or without software modifications. Without attempting to be to technical the OEM system is designed to monitor the engine through a variety of sensors and will make adjustments for changes such as the need for more fuel etc. (within the + or - paramenters set within the DME). Now does this mean that additonal tweaking can't be received by further modifing the maps within the DME, absolutely not. in fact a knowledgeable programer can do some remarkable things to the way the car responds. But what it does mean is that your M5 will run stronger with a better designed exhaust even if managed with the OEM software. Yes, the Hamann software proved to be less than solicited but even with simply bolting on their system gains of over 30HP were seen immediately. As for Dinan, it remains my understanding that they do very little if anything to the basic fuel and timing maps in the OEM DME.

In closing, it sounded to me like the technican was selling a product/service rather than simply answering your question and giving a knowledge based answer. It maybe that he/she simply does not know other than what he/she was told by Dinan..

Just my opinion.
shadowman,

Good points. I am very much looking forward the Supersprint headers along with the upgraded Powerchip S/W.

Mark
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Old 4th November 2003, 02:14   #6
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I've got the same gripe as you about the labor hours... I personally think that it's alright to pay the scheduled fee quoted by Dinan, since the mechanic was good at what he does, and if he could finish it quicker, then he should get the extra pay....

but my gripe is that when they go over the hours that was first quoted, they would charge you... like if it took them 50 hours to install your strut bars, they would charge you 50 hours and not whatever they agreee on in the beginning! crazy eh?
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