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E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

Poll: Which Cai for best performance.
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Which Cai for best performance.

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Old 29th June 2003, 12:52   #1
MIB
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More Air = Colder Air

Still can't decide on CAI for the Beast.

Did you know that Dinan increased the diameter of all the Air intake pipes on their setup. Very subtle but everything all the way along has increased width. All the way including the larger Throttle bodies.

Now I know it has been said that some believe that the bigger throttle bodies were a waste of time as the stock ones flow plenty of air. But what about the theory of More Air = Cooler air.

So Cooler air = More power.

Just thinking in relation to this increased plenum as well. It just seems thorough to me to have increased everything on the way in, and then Headers on the way out. Add a set of Race cats and Tubis and you have increase flow all the way through.

The AA Cai looks great, but Dinan has the moved Sensor, and also larger Air mass flow meters.

Help Dinan are getting to me. I'm being lured in and loving it.

Also what is special about the Gruppe M? As they all look Great, I want the Best performer. Do we know yet? I'm willing to buy two and put them together if necessary.
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Last edited by MIB; 29th June 2003 at 13:21.
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Old 29th June 2003, 13:27   #2
tfung
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Doesn't the Dinan throttle bodies require the headers and everything else in order for their stage 5 software to work?
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US Spec 2001 E39 M5 - LHD
AC Schnitzer
DFC suspension, anti-sway bars, pedals
front splitters, rear wing w/ carbon fiber

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2007 Mercedes E63
2007 Corvette Z06
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Old 29th June 2003, 13:33   #3
MIB
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Quote:
Originally posted by tfung
Doesn't the Dinan throttle bodies require the headers and everything else in order for their stage 5 software to work?
I think alot of that is Dinan Propagander, or good business to sell more parts.

I believe that Powerchip will get it singing a stronger tune. But I do agree with Dinan that you should combine the Larger Air Flow & the CAI and the Throttle boddies , otherwise you would end up with a bottle neck and loose the benefit.

But I don't feel you HAVE to have the Headers to make it work. Of course it is going to improve things with some sought of header. Their is not much point ramming a lot lot more in their if you can't get it out efficiently.

The harder you look at their stuff, the more you can see that they did their homework.
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Old 30th June 2003, 08:38   #4
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Thanks for the votes,

Optimum Air/Fuel is Optimum. I am not convinced that Dinan's software is optimum.

I've seen members have it, be unhappy, change it to powerchip, and then they were happy.

So I won't be running their software. I think I may be able to get by without the wopping power increase of the Floor mats. But the Full CAI,MAFS, Throttle bodies and Trumpets should give a nice kick, combined with the 3.45 Diff and Lightened flywheel.

Bigger and Better MAFS, Moved sensors to avoid heat soak and larger Diameter all sound like well thought out positive and beneficial things. No it would give large increases, but it will make the beast Strong and Consistant all the time. Consistant is good. Strong all hours of the day & Night is good.

Anyone please feel welcome to jump in and talk some sense. These things don't sound like gimmicks to me. It sounds solid.

Yes of course its dearer, but is it Better? If it is undeniably better than I want it. And if it isn't , I'm willing to listen too why it isn't.

Was it TRI and LUPO that voted for the AA CAI & Gruppe M combined.
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Old 1st July 2003, 10:42   #5
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Does this sway anyones answer? Or perhaps invite a response even.

The stock air-box
> just has too small of an inlet and outlet. In addition the software is custom
> for the air mass meters because the change in voltage from the larger air
> mass meters must have the load columns on the matrix rescaled. Other wise the
> ECU will be selecting the wrong values for fuel mixture,ignition and camshaft
> timing as well as drive by wire mapping. The Dinan air mass meter~s also use
> an external air temperature sensor instead of an internal stock unit. This
> improves accuracy to the ECU on hot days when the stock one will heat soak.
> Thisis because the stock air intake temperature sensor is located in the air
> mass meter and gets heat soaked from under hood heated air. This results in a
> power loss because the ECU thinks it is hotter outside than it really is.
> This new sensor also requirescustom software. Three months alone were spent
> on understanding the temp sensors and how it heat soaks and how to reduce
> this problem. No other company intake system has had as much research and
> incorporates as much hardware and performance.
>
> Even with all of this work, there is only 6-hp possible to be had in the
> entire air filter and air intake plumbing area on that engine. I know this
> because we start our R & D by removing the whole intake air-box assembly and
> replace it with very large straight plumbing that completely exits the engine
> compartment just to see what the potential is. This is done so we can see if
> it is a viable product to make and to see how close we are to the optimum
> power that can be achieved when we are finished. The cold air intake
> increased flow did make the large air mass meters more effective, In fact
> there is more power in the large air mass meters than there is in the air
> filter replacement. The combination of the two will net 11 hp, 5 from thecold
> air intake and 6 from the air mass meters! The BMW engineers did a very good
> job. Many companies are claiming power from a replacement element in the
> stock air-box. We have sent stock paper filter elements as well as our
> filter, the K&N and a fourthbrand that I can't remember, to a laboratory for
> a flow measurement and a measurement of particulate matter trapping ability.
> The lab tests show that the stock air filters perform very well and there is
> no power to be had from removing the stock elementsand replacing them with
> other filter medium.
>
> I know our system looks expensive but if you look at the content ours is
> actually a good value. It is much simpler and less costly to make a ram air
> intake for the stock air box than to make a whole new intake track like we
> do. I am veryglad you liked our wheels. I am sorry that we cannot sell our
> large air mass meters without our cold air intake or software but as you can
> see it just wouldn~t work. I hope this technical information helps.
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Old 1st July 2003, 20:47   #6
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Mark...If money is not an issue, I think you have to consider Dinan's warranty if BMW's doesn't cover it and go with Dinan (Jeez...I can't believe I actually said that...am I swaying to the dark side?!)

I've got a new computer program for my laptop that hooks up via the OBDII connector and I should be able to get more accurate data regarding the MAF, intake temp, etc. differences between Dinan and AA, although I'm not sure when Tony & I will be able to get together and do it. I'll post a review of this software and hardware (http://www.autotap.com) after I've evaluated it a bit more. So far I like it a lot!

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Old 1st July 2003, 23:39   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by XrayMD
Mark...If money is not an issue, I think you have to consider Dinan's warranty if BMW's doesn't cover it and go with Dinan (Jeez...I can't believe I actually said that...am I swaying to the dark side?!)

So far I like it a lot!

LOL Steve,

The Force is strong with the Dinan Darkside, so it is hard to resist. Since Money is not an issue, the issue I have is, the same question you are trying to prove or disprove. Is it better? I'm starting to believe it is better.
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