Initial Observations - 2000 vs. 2003 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Lohrax · 22nd April 2003, 20:52

Well, I traded in my '00 and took delivery of my new '03 last Thursday and have had a few days of playing with it to make some interesting observations/comparisons between the two. Note: '00 had Stg I software, Porterfield R4S pads, and Dunlop SP9000s; '03 is currently stock, but the UUC Shortshifter goes in this weekend and I'm awaiting delivery of the AA CAI.

1. Initial throttle response on the stock '03 is noticably not as smooth as that on the '00. This is to be expected, but I didn't think it would be so pronounced. Guess that Stg I download was worth it...

2. Braking is much quieter, but the grip is mushier as well. I can feel that the stock pads take longer to grip than the Porterfields. Porterfields were noisy, but had very fast very strong grip... I left them on all winter after last track season - bad idea as they squealed like stuck pigs the whole time.

3. The clutch, the clutch, the clutch. WOW! What a difference! '00: stiff, quick and instant (read: nasty) engagement point, easy to slip gears. '03: smooth; much nicer engagement point (read: wet soles no longer result in slipped gears).

4. Suspension on the '03 seems a bit 'better', but it is hard to describe. With sport mode on (which it always is; anybody know how to bypass that stupid button?) it seems tighter while cornering but smoother in a straight line. I have a nice winding commute to work that I thoroughly enjoy and have driven every day for the last two years in the '00. It is much easier to take and stick with a line in the '03 than the '00, and the bumps are much smoother when the wheels are straight. Definitely an improvement...

Now the answer to your question: Why did I trade the '00 for an '03? Because the E60 looks, in a word, hideous. I was planning on trading in the '00 for one of the new ones until I saw the photos posted here. That changed my mind real quick.

Quick Rant:

Note to Mr. Bangle: I believe ~2000 (or more) of those people who purchased the E39 M5 (which would be what, 10% of the production run and $150 million in revenue?) and would have gotten in line for the E60 won't be purchasing one - based exclusively on the exterior styling. I do hope BMW can handle your $150 million mistake...

nsxguru · 22nd April 2003, 22:20

[quote]Originally posted by Lohrax
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4. Suspension on the '03 seems a bit 'better', but it is hard to describe. With sport mode on (which it always is; anybody know how to bypass that stupid button?) it seems tighter while cornering but smoother in a straight line. I have a nice winding commute to work that I thoroughly enjoy and have driven every day for the last two years in the '00. It is much easier to take and stick with a line in the '03 than the '00, and the bumps are much smoother when the wheels are straight. Definitely an improvement...

It has been my impression, in researching this car, that the Sport button only affects the quickeness of the steering turn-in and the sensitivity of the throttle for quicker throttle response initially. I was assuming that the Sport button did something with firming the suspension, but the information I seemed to get from the brochure indicated otherwise. Can somebody confirm this?

Chris Foote · 23rd April 2003, 01:16

You are right, the sport button only affects steering and throttle response. That's it.

As far as makine a comparison between the '00 and '03, well, the '00 has some miles on it, right?

It's tough to make a comparison like that.

-Chris

Need4Spd · 23rd April 2003, 01:31

The other reason for the difference in feel is the tires. Even with identical suspension calibrations, the new one would feel different because it's new and not yet broken in, and the different tires would make a significant difference even if the two cars were otherwise identical. Still, I can understand why you did this, as I don't like the looks of the next gen. car, either. So, it's oil changes every 7500 for me!

Chuckc · 23rd April 2003, 01:56

Question on your brake pads and tires.

Brakes: I will be going to a different pad. The R4s was recommended to me by a expert track driver. You mentioned they were noisy.
1. Is that characteristic of the R4S or were there other factors involved such as the bedding in process?
2. If you had to choose again, would that be the pad you would use or have you researched something better?

Tires:

1. How did you like the Dunlops? I am almost ready for a new set and I seem to get varying opinions on tires. Most of my "performance" driving is done on the track and notice that the stock 8080e tires are marginal. I don't want to get a separate set just for track use.

It is nice that you are able to get a 2003. I have a 2002 and have been thinking it would be great to order a 2003 spec'd exactly how I want it. The e60 even though the technical aspects of the car should be better than the e39, the styling, especially the tail lights is somewhat disturbing. I haven't warmed up the interior either.

Thx in advance for your input.
Chuck

greer · 23rd April 2003, 04:27

Great thread, did the dealer give you a good deal on the trade in?

MEnthusiast · 23rd April 2003, 05:15

Chris,
youre right. Still Lohrax has an intersting thread. I can confirm some of these things

the suspension of the 03 seems better dampened than on my 00

the clutch pedal on the 03 is much easier

in general the 03 feels a tad more refined. is that reason alone to move from an 00 to an 03- personal choice I suppose.

one thing I will absolutely agree on is worry over future BMW models- Lohrax you are not alone. Im not so sure what I think of the E60, but I know it isnt love at first sight and given my worry about what they are doing and horror over idrive I also acquired an 03, and I know several others who have done the exact same thing. So as a note to Mr. Bangle, we should give you credit for the great projects you presided over (the Z8 for example) but the latest designs have us a little concerned.

Gustav · 23rd April 2003, 14:46

Any noticable difference on the engine and sound? I assume less Vanos noise risk and less oil consumption?

MEnthusiast · 23rd April 2003, 18:27

the engine in the 03 seems smoother and the sound goes along with that- much less vanos noise- almost none. compare to the S62 in my Z8- that sounds like a disel! (my dealers on the case) I also thought the 03 engine had more power than the 00 M5 but not more than the 00 Z8. my theory is the 00 M5 I had was a 10w60 engine while the Z8 and 03 M5 are 5w30 engines and maybe BMW made some tweaks- supposedly the earlier M5s had a little less power. Maybe its just my imagination. I cant say for sure.

Lohrax · 23rd April 2003, 18:58

nsxguru & chris: Good point about the sport. I guess it must be something else (or a combination of factors) that has resulted in the improved handling over the '00. The interesting thing is that with new tires I would have expected the grip to be much less. Perhaps the grip on the Dunlops was subpar and I got used to a little lateral movement...something to research! When I traded in the '00 it had 30,032 miles on it, courtesy of my short 3 mile commute to work.

Chuckc: I absolutely loved the Porterfields on the track. Grip increases and braking response decreases when they warm up to track temps. They are completely silent on the track as there is sufficient pad material being applied to the rotors to eliminate screech. Last track event was October at The Glen. The Porterfields were quiet until early December, and then they started squealing (due to gradual removal of the pad material that was applied during the October track event). I went through the bedding-in procedure again in late December and they were quiet for about three weeks before they started squealing again. By February I had a pattern down: every three to four weeks I would go out to I-195 (Jersey Turnpike <=> NJ Shore interstate) late at night (between 11PM and 1AM) during the week. Vast empty stretches of highway; fairly straight but with a few curves that are interesting at >120mph. Run through an intense bedding-in procedure - Portfield procedure X 3 plus a few standing 1/4s followed by max braking (got interesting when there was ice or grit on the road surface). That would put enough material on to last through the month. Granted, I don't commute much so I'm not braking as much as a 'normal' commuter would so my 'rotor cleaning rate' is probably lower than average. It is possible that use of a bedding compound or gel could minimize the squeal, but I have not researched that. Regarding future pad usage, I'm going to stick with the R4S pads for track use and keep the stock ones for street use. Regarding tires, the stock 8080s are very soft and the shoulders die on the track. The Dunlops were great on a dry track, but after about one hour of very light rainfall at Summit Point my @$$ was all over the track. Others on this board recommend the Bridgestone Potenza S-03s, and I'm going to give them a try after I shred the stock tires at the next event. I would highly recommend a spare set of wheels that you can put track tires on. I grew up a little north of San Diego so I know what your weather is like. If you get the Type 66 M 17" wheels (~$2K) you can put some excellent Hoosiers on ( ~$1K) you save yourself the wear and tear on your normal wheels and tires and give yourself room for the StopTech upgrade later. You would then have a really sticky set of track rubber that will allow you to stay in the turns with anything except the high-end Italian metal. I guess it depends on how much time and $$$ (well, $$$, since time=$$$) you want to devote to the 'project'.

greer: not bad. Some @$$hole rear-ended me in the parking lot after the Eagles lost to the Bucs in January and I didn't repair it as the repair was more expensive than the reduction the dealer took off the trade-in value.

Gustav: no appreciable difference in the engine sounds that I can decipher; although I must admit that with the M Audio option I've been crankin' the tunes rather high of late...

Haven't had her long enough to get any oil stats, but I'll be taking copious notes on that deal. Interesting oil note: I'm looking at putting Royal Purple in at the first change. Anybody have any experience with RP?