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Old 2nd February 2003, 22:43   #11
TriflowM5+M3
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dave, what ever you said....just makes me want the kit.

I didnt read the entire message that you put down last but it looked long and wordy...im a picture man, and I like how red calipers look in the rear.

SOB! (not directed at you dave) I swore to myself, that I had all my spending in order....oh well, there goes another 6K!
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Old 3rd February 2003, 17:35   #12
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Thank you for the comprehensive explanation, DZ! From reading all of that it looks like I won't be needing to make the upgrade just yet. I'll probably go the route of getting just the rear kit and replacing my front calipers. Any idea how much that would cost me?
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Old 3rd February 2003, 18:12   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by atomic80
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation, DZ! From reading all of that it looks like I won't be needing to make the upgrade just yet. I'll probably go the route of getting just the rear kit and replacing my front calipers. Any idea how much that would cost me?
Yes. The calipers list for $500 each.

I know, I know! Ouch!
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Old 3rd February 2003, 22:45   #14
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Does replacing the calipers affect the ABS calibration in any way?
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Old 3rd February 2003, 23:12   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Need4Spd
Does replacing the calipers affect the ABS calibration in any way?
It depends on what you replace them with as well as the size of the new rotors and the coefficient of friction of the pads.

StopTech does track testing of each new brake kit design to make sure the stopping distances are minimized with and without ABS active. They also do a test called a "modified J-turn" which is used to determine if there are any negative interactions between the brakes and the ABS and/or stability control system. This is the same procedure that ABS design engineers use when testing new systems.

Here's how it works:

The turn is a constant radius course which has been carefully measured and marked with paint dots that are calibrated. The car is taken around a skid pad located in the same spot and the maximum speed the car can be driven around that circle is measured. Next, the car makes a run at the skid pad at that speed. Partway through the turn, the driver applies the brakes and the car comes to a stop. A tape measure is then laid out between the calipbrated dots nearest where the car stopped. Then, a measurement is taken from each wheel to that perpendicular tape with the mesurement taken along the line of sight from the wheel to another distant cone that has been placed as a calibrated reference point. The distance from wheel to tape is recorded as is the distances from the dots and this is all entered into a laptop. Car wheelbase and track is also entered. The laptop does some crunching of the numbers and comes up with the "departure angle" of the car from the intended direction. If it is outside of a narrow range, the brake system needs to be rebalanced with either larger or smaller pistons in the front or rear calipers.

As you can see, it's even more complicated than just swapping calipers until you find the set that yields the shortest stopping distances!

I was in California in December helping to test the new Nissan 350Z brake kits (332mm front, 355mm front, and 4-wheel kit) and I took photos of this process. It was pretty cool once I understood what was going on.


Driving the 350Z at 46.5mph on the J-turn course


Getting ready to take measurements for departure angle calculation

The bottom line answer to your question is, the ABS and the dynamic stability control will both work fine after installation of this kit.

These vehicle control systems are designed for a wide range of road conditions. As such, they can adapt to a fairly broad range of caliper choices as well. It's hard to make the systems "freak out" but it is possible, which is why StopTech runs this test. The results of this test sometimes cause the StopTech engineers to go back to the drawing board.
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Old 3rd February 2003, 23:55   #16
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Dave, Is there much weight savings on all 4 wheels vs stock?

Doug
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Old 4th February 2003, 17:48   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by D/FW M5
Is there much weight savings on all 4 wheels vs stock?
I don't know the exact weight savings but I can definitely tell you that there is a definite weight savings between the two. I had the chance to lift both sets when swapping out the brakes and the stock pieces were HEAVY!
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Old 4th February 2003, 18:08   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by D/FW M5
Dave, Is there much weight savings on all 4 wheels vs stock?

Doug
Yes, there is a weight savings. The factory front rotors weigh 26.45 lb. each and the factory front calipers/carriers (without pads) weigh 13.4 lb. each.

The StopTech 355mm rotors with hats weigh about 18 lb. and the caliper is 7 lb. (without pads). (I'm doing an installation on Thursday, so I can get exact weights then.)

Your approximate unsprung weight savings is then 14.9 lb. per corner with 8.45 lb. of that being rotating mass.

There will be no weight savings in the rear. The stock rear rotor is 16.2 lb. and the caliper/carrier is 6.9 lb. Since the E39 rear kit will be using the same 355mm rotor, there will be a 1.8 lb. weight gain in the rotor and the calipers will weigh the same.
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Old 4th February 2003, 18:25   #19
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Thanks

Thanks for all the information. i am very glad to hear the kit will be available early enough to get installed before I head to the track this spring. I do have one question. In one of your posts you described that because of the additional brake torque generated by the rear set up they have changed front calipers to larger pistons in order to compensate and that this creaates overall more brake torque front and rear. Will this have an impact on stopping distance or just pedal feel etc?
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Old 4th February 2003, 18:35   #20
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Re: Thanks

Quote:
Originally posted by rprellwitz
Thanks for all the information. i am very glad to hear the kit will be available early enough to get installed before I head to the track this spring. I do have one question. In one of your posts you described that because of the additional brake torque generated by the rear set up they have changed front calipers to larger pistons in order to compensate and that this creaates overall more brake torque front and rear. Will this have an impact on stopping distance or just pedal feel etc?
Just pedal feel. As long as the balance is the same, the stopping distance will be the same.
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