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        Old 7th January 2003, 01:02   #1 (permalink)
        Richard in NC
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        Tire decision time - track tires or not?

        Here is my quandry. Read carefully to follow along...
        Due to excessive wear and a tire mishap, I replaced my rear tires at 15,000 miles (same Michelin Pilots as original). Now at 18,500 my right front is nearing replacement time but could probably last until 20,000 or so. The left front had a nail and was replaced at 7000 so it has a long ways to go. I want to get a pair of Michelin Pilots for the front to continue and match the rears.

        Now, throw in the fact that I want to do a driving school in March, which of the following should I do?

        1. Keep the current fronts as long as I can surely wearing them out at the track. The left front takes the most abuse anyways and certainly can last thru it. But would a tire nearly at the wear bars pass tech inspection or be safe to push hard?

        2. Replace the tires soon so the fronts can be broken in by the driving school. Although, I'd really hate to scuff up a brand new set of fronts.

        3. Replace the fronts whenever and buy a set of track tires and rims. I'd be able to save the Michelins for the street. Given that this will be my 2nd track experience and I intend to do no more than 2-3 per year, should I:

        3a. Buy inexpensive street tires such as Kuhmos or
        3b. Get a set of R compound tires (but see the PS).

        PS: My car is completely stock now, but I intend on putting in the brake vents probably with the Home Depo sink drains and better brake fluid like ATE Super Blue. For 2 events per year, should I go thru the expense and trouble of track pads as well?
        For you NC folks, who should do the upgrades? Lately, I don't have the time or inclination to mess with pads, bleeding brakes, etc.

        I value all of your opinions and would like to hear them (especially those that track their M5) but of course I may ignore them and do what I want anyways.........
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        Old 7th January 2003, 01:17   #2 (permalink)
        MIB
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        Re: Tire decision time - track tires or not?

        Quote:
        Originally posted by Richard in NC


        I value all of your opinions and would like to hear them (especially those that track their M5) but of course I may ignore them and do what I want anyways.........
        LOL. Of course you will ignore everyone, your from NC.
        j/k.

        IMO witch will probably be ignored after my wise crack, is you might as well get full use out of everything you have, as once taken off it won't go back on.

        Enjoy wearing out what is already there, then upgrade at replacement time. Why throw away good stock pads, to upgrade to track pads. Track the car and you'll have a lot of fun wearing out the stock ones, and when you return with the upgraded ones you have a good benchmark to see if the new pads are performing or not. Same with tyres. Wear em out then reolace with better. My .04c worth. Ignore away.
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        Old 7th January 2003, 01:21   #3 (permalink)
        jmott
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        Im toying with the idea of race tires for racing, cheap street tires like khumo for the front, and some drag radials for the rear.

        ive yet to really need to outhandle a lotus on any street driven turns, so handling there really doesn't matter to me. Anything better than an SUV will be fine. And some drag radials in the rear should be nice for making use of the power, and fun at any potential drag strip visits..
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        Old 7th January 2003, 03:13   #4 (permalink)
        pmiranda
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        Unless you really get the pads smoking at the track (some tracks just don't need brakes as much as others), the stock pads with brake ducts should be fine for a couple times a year.

        The front tires really take abuse on road courses as far as I can tell. I've only done three days and my <5000 mile Pilots are badly feathered. I'm considering getting some track tires myself but have no clue where to start.
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        Old 7th January 2003, 05:44   #5 (permalink)
        Teutonaddict
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        I'll offer my $.07

        I've tracked my Beast ~10 times, and had an E39 540i/6 that I tracked a half-dozen times before that. I now own a full set of dedicated track wheels + tires, and I swap between street and track pads for the 2-4 DEs that I do each year. I now change pads and flush fluid on my own for each event, and have done each job trackside on occasion in 30-45 minutes.

        If you've not become entirely comfortable with the track manners of your Beast on street tires, then I would not rush to get the track tires just yet. It sounds like a good plan to use and abuse your street tires for the upcoming event. Street tread at the wearbars should not be a problem for a BMW CCA event, nor is it inherently unsafe (unless it rains, then I would use extra caution!). After the event, you can get a dedicated track tire set-up for future events, and you wont be accelerating the wear on a brand new set of street tires.

        [I made the mistake of putting a brand new LF tire on my 540i/6 after discovering a nail the night before a DE at Sebring Raceway. The varied surfaces at Sebring are murder on rubber, and my tire looked like it had traveled 15K miles after two days of use. I got the track setup after that experience.]

        One other tire note: You'll be amazed at how quickly the torque from S62 motor eats up your rear tires at the track! While you can rotate your front tires inside-out to extend their lives, your rears are gonna wear from the centers out--switching sides won't help! I find I'm replacing fronts and rears at roughly the same pace--a far cry from my experience on street tires.

        I DO think minor brake modifications would suit you well if you plan to track a few times a year. That being said, I have found it possible to virtually eliminate brake fade at the track by doing the following: (1) open factory brake ducts, (2) flush system with high-temp fluid, (3) replace front pads with track compound, and probably less essential, (4) install stainless steel brake lines.

        As others have said, this is less critical depending upon the track and your speeds, so you might work up to these changes. At Road Atlanta, however, I found myself experiencing mushy brake pedal in my very first morning of tracking my Beast. After making the aforementioned upgrades, brake fade has not been an issue.

        I know that some may take issue with swapping only front pads, but in the early lives of the E39 M5s, there were not a lot of options available for track compound pads to fit the stock calipers. Necessity being the mother of invention, I found that I could change the front pads to a compound that handled track temperatures much better, without upsetting brake balance. I switch my fronts back and forth between Mintex Red Box (street) and C-Tech (track), without having to also swap rotors. The Mintex C-Tech pads are only ~$160 from www.germanautoparts.com . Originally, I left the factory pads on the rears for all my DEs, and then switched to Mintex Red Box after 45K miles when the original pads wore out.

        Finally, I found a nice compromise in my track tire set-up. I bought the full package from TireRack.com for about $1650. For rubber, I've got Yokohama A032Rs and I bought the "house brand" wheels, a clean five-spoke (Borbet Type E). I run a 17" set, and have zero brake clearance problems. R = 275-40/17 and F = 245-45/17.

        That's more than $.07. Sorry. Shoot me any questions, and I'll be happy to oblige!

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