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        Old 4th January 2003, 05:03   #1 (permalink)
        TriflowM5+M3
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        My Big Fat Dyno Wedding....

        Ok, for those who have been waiting...here they are.
        But first a word from our sponsor.

        Guys today was good, then turned not so nice and then good again. Let me 'splain.

        First off the guys at Active are a top notch group. I cant think of a another set of guys I would rather take my car to and if i had an E36 M3 they would be it. PERIOD! They are some serious cats. I saw things that i shouldnt know about and no one, not a single person is going to get the info out of me. (Told you I wouldnt say anything Rey). I dont know what you're talk'n bout...honestly officer. They were great the entire day and answered any comments/questions/bitches/moans/groans or complaints I had. Specially since i got a little cranky cause i had to be up at 5am to be down in Miami by 9.

        NOW back to our regularly scheduled program. Dyno'd the car and it was all going well. Conditions werent good for humans but ok for the car (65-68 windy and cloudy). By the way, what a noise my baby makes..im still deaf in my right ear as it was closest to the exhaust. What did you say? You're going to have to speak up! I was thinking it was going to make more power than it did but then i had to look at some previous dynos because Active uses a Mustang Dyno vs a Dynojet.

        Best stock run 316hp@6500 and 309lb/ft@2500....equates to about 418 and about 375lb/ft from what math i was doing. Avg runs were about 312 and about 305. So the exhaust is making some good power and some good noise. There is a video that Rey took and it might show up on the website....i dont know, his call not mine.

        Not bad but certainly it could be better...the car was really really really rich and the A/F meter was picking it up. This would be an on going problem with my car for the entire day there. So because of that, she got a few more runs on the dyno while Active tryed to figure out why. First off we know there is more power to be had with my car in its not so stock form if only the car would lean out with power applications. Here in lies the problem to be dicusses later.

        The install was great and I need to get my buddy that i took with me to download some of his digital pics and i need to develop some normal film. They will be up though at some point very soon. It took about and hour and a half maybe a little more to install and so I contined to recover my hearing at this point. So out to brunch or lunner (whichever you prefer) with my buddy and Rey as they finished up the install. Great fit and great great great. I cant say it enough, looks alot better in person as the rings are nice and shinny.

        So up for intake dyno now...at first the car does about the same as stock. What the heck is that??? Well as the car adapts (or lack there of) it doesnt get better and a little worse because now there is to much fuel in the engine for even the intake to counter act. OH GREAT, is what is going through my head. I soon became an unhappy customer because its not the intakes fault, its my own car's fault (as proven by the first set of A/F ratios+dyno runs). STEVE WE NEED POWERCHIPS!!! GET ON IT MAN!

        As the guys scramble to figure out how to get this car to put up some numbers they found that the car wasnt at all adapting to the intake (All you dinan haters- here is your shot) The only difference in my car versus any other car that was on the dyno in a software sense was the dinan software. And since you can normally adjust the stock OEM acclimation paramaters, we concluded that the dinan software was causing the problem by not adapting. Ok one problem solved but how can i fix the A/F ratio you say? Well there are some thoughts on this one...have the cars ecu go back to stock or get the upgraded Stg II dinan software and hope that it settles out the A/F ratio and the ECU's hesitance to not change. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

        As the car got more and more acclimated to the intake it did start to make more power. The max power stock vs max power intake arent great (8hp and 8.5 ft/lbs= 324 wheels/430+flywheel 318lb/ft=about 385lb/ft) but you have to remember my car is having some serious software problems even before it went on. There is some good power to be had once i get it settled out... For those of you looking at just plain peak numbers thats not the whole story. The car made more power over 99% of the power band and the avg-gains verses the avg-stock runs were at 10-15 range hp and 13-15 ft/lbs. I know that i wrote earlier that it was only 8 on each but that was best stock run vs the best modded run, not the comparison between the averages.

        Am I happy yes. As happy as I could be, no. The fault lies not with the intake but my stupid dinan software (and i called them to ask why this might happen- they blame the airflow meters). I know what i saw and the proof lies there, the dinan software is not kosher with my new intake.......hold on, dont go anywhere! As I drove home it continued to adapt and as of right now i would venture to say there there might be an extra 8-10 that didnt show up at the shop that showed up under my hood.

        Guys this intake makes power and please please dont let it sway you. I know that both Steve (Xray) and I have had some software problems but you can see that it makes power and if he and I get the software settled, watch out!

        Best of luck to those who got on the group buy and I swear...im going to do one thing or another to get back my sneeky Horses. Hey Rey, again I didnt say anything about what im not supposed to know.....

        The intake is getting better and im going to try and post the numbers tomorrow...later...
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        Old 4th January 2003, 05:38   #2 (permalink)
        MIB
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        I'm confused Tri,

        You don't have the Dinan CAI. You only have their stage one software. From this are you saying Dinan aren't any good?

        Please Explain.

        This is why I have always been worried about mix and matching things. One company is always going to blame the other companys products, and Visa Versa.

        I like systems. From the one company. That way they have no excuses and no outs. If its all from them and theirs a problem, its their problem.

        From what I've seen on the board, IMO I believe the Dinan Mods all work very well together, and believe it fruitless to introduce other brands into the equasion just to save a little coin.

        I'm not flamming here, I value your opinion on this, so please let me have it.
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        Old 4th January 2003, 05:44   #3 (permalink)
        XrayMD
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        Alright!!! Glad you like it! I'm sorry, I've been so busy I haven't had a chance to contact Powerchip, but I promise I'll get in touch with them over the weekend by email and hopefully get some answers from them early next week. Driving it after the install is the key issue..the butt-o-meter tells a lot.

        Glad to hear you were treated well at AA, but remember, we have ways of making you talk!

        If you ever get you beast up a bit further north, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the extra power. Also, try some 94 or 100 octane gas. I've heard of an extra 8 to 10 HP with the 100 octane.

        It's interesting that your problem was lack of ECU adaptation to the mod and mine was a problem with the way the Superchip software adapted to the extra air intake after several days. I would think that the extra air going in would result in a change made to restore the A/F ratio by making the mixture richer. However, I was told that previous experience at the shop where I did my dyno was that the Superchip ended up making the mixture leaner. Go figure.

        We'll get it all straightened out and I'll get some answers from Powerchip and post them.

        Enjoy your "new" beast!

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        Old 4th January 2003, 06:45   #4 (permalink)
        jmott
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        are there some detailed pictures or schematics of the AA CAI somewhere?

        I'm curious to see its design.
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        Old 4th January 2003, 07:58   #5 (permalink)
        RayfuM5
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        Would OEM software put up better numbers?
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        Old 4th January 2003, 08:30   #6 (permalink)
        rvacha
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        TriflowM5-
        I'm confused... you say the Dinan software isn't adapting, but it is acclimating?

        Please explain!

        Thanks in Advance
        Ray
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        Old 4th January 2003, 18:14   #7 (permalink)
        TriflowM5+M3
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        the software questions answered...

        The car did adapt but it didnt at first. The Dinan software has what appears to be lock on the adaptations it can do. It will only adapt once and after that it wont do another big adaptation to anything. It feels as if the car has done smaller adaptations since I drove it home from Miami last night as the power in 3rd is nothing short of remarkable. 2nd gear just about broke loose the tires when i hit about 40 and got enough air into the intake.

        Sorry for any confusion on the software..Bluemax gave me an idea and im going to try it out. Now if i can only find a Dinan dealer close to me.. Im going to try and get the Stg II software and see if that helps...if not i have 30 days to take it off.

        From what I can tell, the stock software would put up better numbers because it would allow the car to do more than one big adaptation rather than just one and maybe one little one. I actually saw this "adaptation" stuff on a lap top that was hooked to my car....those with mods should check it out sometime and see how many your car has.

        jmott- I have some pics but they are being developed as we speak and Dave (my best bud) has his digital that he should be sending me pics today as well.

        MIB- Im bashing Dinan as I know that they put out quality products. It is just the fact that the software that they offer only will adapt one time to a set of conditions and after that you're out of luck. It just stinks because the car WOULD make more power

        Im going to post my graphs that I got on my imagestation account but I am wondering if anyone can host them for me...i can just email them to you.

        Check them out here..

        Dyno and Air Fuel Ratio Graphs

        The Airfuel Ratio should be higher up on the graphs near 14 and not around 12.5 They were even lower when the intake was first put on...like 11.8 but they went back up. You can see that the AA modded A/F ratio is less crazy and seems to help out a little.

        Guys by the way, i re did my numbers on the torque side and I figure that my baby was making closer to 400lb/ft and now is making something like 420. So my baby is dyno'd at 430-432 hp and 420lb/ft. Not bad, but it can be better with new software.
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        Old 4th January 2003, 18:53   #8 (permalink)
        D/FW M5
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        TriFlow, Why are you saying the A/F ratio should be higher around 14? Maximum power is usually made at a 12.7 ratio, so if your at 12.5 thats not too far off.

        Doug
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        Old 4th January 2003, 20:23   #9 (permalink)
        cjones
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        Seriously those A/F ratios look pretty good to me. Best case you would see about 12.7:1 at peak torque and lean it out progressively to redline to about 13.1:1. I don't see the possibility of gaining much power from A/F tweaks.

        I think we would see similar gains on a stock ECU M5, which isn't too bad.
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        Old 4th January 2003, 20:36   #10 (permalink)
        BostonRocket
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        Interesting post Triflow. I have a question, and anyone can answer this one. How do the figures on one dyno machine compare to the figures on another dyno machine? Would there be any difference in their measurements of rear wheel hp? And were your numbers adjusted for variable such as weather and atmosphere?

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        Old 4th January 2003, 20:53   #11 (permalink)
        cjones
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        There should be a measured value and a correction factor based on atmospheric pressure, temperature and humidity. It might be something like 0.98 or 1.03.

        If you dyno your car on a Mustang dyno and then a Dynojet you'll get different numbers. Can't remember which usually reads higher but I think