Cam timing and VANOS spring maint - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 25 Old 10th December 2012, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
trentmw
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Cam timing and VANOS spring maint

Some info prior to the question... My car has been running rich for awhile now and has not been cured by many of the typical solutions, O2’s, CPS, MAF, etc… I decided to take the diagnosis to the next level and check the valve timing. I also figured while I had that apart I’d keep going and replace the VANOS springs with the updated parts (already performed solenoid maint). Also convinced Scott (fmcfad01) who is dealing with the same problem to do this at the same time. Before I proceed, a big shout out to JamiePeers and all that helped him for the detailed DIY… great job

So far we removed the 150ish bolts to get to the point where we could check the timing. Now as an interesting note, I remembered a service function in my GT1 to set VANOS into assembly position. Well of course I remembered it too late for my car as I had it half disassembled (car has to run for it to work) so used the modified 27mm wrench to set the VANOS to the initial position. But then tried it out with Scott’s car and was very surprised that it actually worked. Don’t know why BMW has a special tool that uses compressed air to move the VANOS when the GT1 did the same function.

Anyhow… The results were that all of Scott’s cams were still timed correctly but my bank 1 was off a bit which very well could explain my rich codes.


Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0621-1-.jpg


Now to the Question...

Will continue on with the R&R as the week progresses, but in the meantime I have a question about the cam oil pipes…
I took the warning in step 4 of Jamie’s DIY “Now remove the 4 oil lines that cover the cams, 5 bolts on each. DO NOT MIX THESE UP” and as luck would have it I put them on a box on the floor in the order I took them off and before I could mark them I decided it would be fun to knock the box over and have them get all mixed up on the ground
It was easy enough to distinguish between the pipes in banks 1 and 2 as they are different sizes. Front to back was also easy due to the spacing of the bolt holes and dimple. My question is… Is there any importance to the location of the holes that are drilled into each bolt location? Now luckily I learn from my mistakes and when we removed Scott’s pipes I labeled the exact position of each pipe. Then compared that to my pipes and was able to match up the orientation of the small holes on 3 of the pipes. The holes in one of my bank 1 pipes did not look like any of the other pipes. See the pics below. Typically most of the holes were drilled in the corners of the pipe openings (top pipe) but one of my pipes had most of the holes drilled in the 12,3,6 and 9 o’clock positions. (bottom pipe)


Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0625-1-.jpg


My initial thought is there is not much importance to this difference since my engine has run for over 100k miles with that pipe, and according to REALOEM the part # for bank 1 is exactly the same for intake and exhaust, but nevertheless wanted to check with the experts as this would not be a fun area to get something wrong.




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post #2 of 25 Old 10th December 2012, 12:34 PM
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unfortunately i didn't pay much attention to the holes in my pipes other than the orientation of bolt holes etc as i kept mine in order.

I would say if you are confident that the bars came off in the same orientation and order you have now, then refitting them would be OK, given they are the same ones that come off that particular bank/cam, are the same part no on REALOEM and you have run the engine 100K
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post #3 of 25 Old 10th December 2012, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for the write up Mike.

Here are some pics of my 120k mile S62





Overall, I was surprised to see that my cams seem to be correctly timed. My VANOS boards looked to be in good shape. My father did have the engine rebuilt by BMW under warranty at about 60k miles, so overall, it should be in good shape.

The biggest issues I ran into were that three of my plenum studs are snapped (were before I touched them) and one of my vanos grub screws stripped. Other than that, it's been fairly smooth sailing thus far.

I'm also hoping that replacing all of these seals gets rid of some of my oil consumption. There is certainly a noticeable amount of oil on the outside of my engine coming from that area.

Last edited by fmcfad01; 10th December 2012 at 07:34 PM.
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post #4 of 25 Old 10th December 2012, 08:34 PM
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you cam timing is not off that is in the window its good i have seen them when they are out of the window completely i would leave it alone if you are unfamiliar in doing this job

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post #5 of 25 Old 10th December 2012, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m5 deamon View Post
you cam timing is not off that is in the window its good i have seen them when they are out of the window completely i would leave it alone if you are unfamiliar in doing this job
I was under the impression that since the edge on the right of the pic is outside the window that the cam was not in time anymore. I agree it is not much outside of it but was hopeful that I had found something that potentially contributed to the problem. I am unfamiliar in the sense that it will be my first time timing S62 cams, but after studying the procedures in the DIY's I do feel very comfortable with replacing the VANOS springs and re-timing.
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post #6 of 25 Old 10th December 2012, 11:35 PM
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What I don't understand is why you say your car is running rich? Mainly the rich part because sometimes when people see fuel trim and it is + they still say rich because they feel it should be 0. Do you have either B2 or 3? What is your long term trim? Why do you feel your car is running rich?
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post #7 of 25 Old 11th December 2012, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by m5 deamon View Post
you cam timing is not off that is in the window its good i have seen them when they are out of the window completely i would leave it alone if you are unfamiliar in doing this job
I agree. I went in to change the chain guides and checked the cam timing while I was in there. All 4 cams were off about the same as your photo and I wasn't running rich at all. I adjusted the timing to get the slot centred in the window and noticed not a whit of difference in performance or fuel trims. I think the claims that a lot of M5's are mistimed is a bit of a crock. I don't think retiming will fix your rich problem.
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post #8 of 25 Old 11th December 2012, 03:29 AM
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I didn't look very closely at those oil rails either when I had them off. Do they pick up oil feed from that hole on the front cam brg and distribute it to the other cam brgs and spray it on the cam lobes? Or are they getting oil from all the cam brgs and just serve the function of spritzing oil on the lobes?

I don't understand you photo with the arrows. Can you shows the small holes you are talking about?
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post #9 of 25 Old 11th December 2012, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
What I don't understand is why you say your car is running rich? Mainly the rich part because sometimes when people see fuel trim and it is + they still say rich because they feel it should be 0. Do you have either B2 or 3? What is your long term trim? Why do you feel your car is running rich?
Sorry, I didn't revisit that from other threads and discussions. Yes I basically had a constant b2 and many times would also get b3 codes. Many times it smells like a gun range with an strong smell of carbon. I do have an Evolve alpha-N tune but drive with MAF's connected since Alpha N mode exaggerates the problem. I have also been working with Sal and sent him some data logging with a wideband and IIRC coming off throttle the engine would go very rich (7-8 AFR) and stay there for about 30 seconds before returning close to stoic. Sal had seen that problem before and had resolved by replacing Vanos springs.
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post #10 of 25 Old 11th December 2012, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 68FB View Post
I didn't look very closely at those oil rails either when I had them off. Do they pick up oil feed from that hole on the front cam brg and distribute it to the other cam brgs and spray it on the cam lobes? Or are they getting oil from all the cam brgs and just serve the function of spritzing oil on the lobes?

I don't understand you photo with the arrows. Can you shows the small holes you are talking about?
Below is a pic of one of the holes in the oil pipe. There are 4 holes per opening that goes over the stud on the cam bearing caps. The black arrows on the paper towels approximates the locations of holes in each of the openings (the arrows running parallel to the pipe represent the holes that would be in the 9 or 3 o'clock position in the opening)
Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0630.jpg

Next is a picture of the bank 1 intake front cam cap with an oiling hole at the top
Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0631a.jpg

Next is a picture of the bank 1 intake cam cap for cylinder 1. Which shows the oiling hole on the bottom.
Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0633a.jpg

Next is a picture of bank 1 which shows the locations of the oiling holes
Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0635a.jpg

Bank 2 oiling hole locations
Cam timing and VANOS spring maint-img_0634a.jpg

I would say you are correct that the oil must come from the front bearing travel through the pipes and feed the other bearings. Looking at it more it seems that the hole location in each bolt hole is not critical, just the orientation of the pipe on the engine itself.
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