2strokecoldsmoke

'And I'll make your M5 lose 20 pounds in 90 days using our miracle powder!'
I thought I had blocked the infomercial channels on my satellite box...

So what if someone posts 'free' tunes on the internet? There are really no major power gains to be had from a tune anyways. Even evolve will tell you that. You are just getting a motor that runs smoother and drives better. evolve's tune (which I have) seems to give more power at mid-range RPM, but probably spend a lot of money developing that program.

And what exactly am I going to do with an open source ECU software? Spend thousands of dollars on dyno time to mess with my engine parameters?
Sure, it would be nice to plug in my laptop and open up a screen with check boxes: "sport mode, stay on", "turn off post O2 sensors", and stuff like that. But a full remap of all engine parameters? Most people don't have the time or inclination to mess with it.
I recognize that if the engine is materially changed (headers, cams, airflow mods, supercharger), then the ECU may need to be reprogrammed. But most of the guys that manufacture/sell engine parts that will radically alter your horsepower also perform ECU remapping or can sell you the remap you need.

If somebody can truly provide an 'open source' ECU service, bring it on. But realistically, what are 99% of us going to do with it?
Besides, the OP's language and tone makes me think that he is selling snake oil.

Openbmwecu

Things are progressing well, a lot of people Simply PM rather than be engage in the conflict

Whilst it should be obvious, people that have existing tunes that are happy are not the primary target

You guys have a tune, paid for it, and don't currently seek to change it

That's fine.

But the opportunity here is for others to determine what they want to, not necessarily what YOU want to do

The difference is that the success of this project is not determined by how many people become involved , or how many units are sold or what profit is made

I truely don't car how many people become involved or how many people remap their car

I don't care if you assume people will want to sabotage others cars with faulty tunes

Thanks for expressing your opinions on why this project might fail, and we will use the feedback to put checks and balances in place to minimze risks

But this project will take at least three months (probably more) before anyone with a commercial tune would want to wipe it out and give up the warranty from a commercial tune

If you are not interested in open tuning, that's no problem

But please try to be civil and professional about it

Cheer leading and cheerleaders of commercial products (and to the same extent haters of commercial tuners) do not help promote mature professional respectful communication

And the aims and justifications for this project need not concern you, it's not designed to sell commercial tunes, it's aim is to share information, and I'm not sure what Evolve lovers are doing attempting to derail our efforts

If you wish to express a negative opinion, I suggest you say what the likelyhood of free and open tuning for the e39 will be, give us three months. Who thinks there will be a website and forum established where open files are exchanged in a friendly and supportive environment?

We would happily accept donations that is used towards m5board sponsorship costs from the naysayers that are certain we won't have it up and running in three months*

We are going to do it, and have a lot of fun doing it

Fanboys and cheerleaders of commercial brands will not be welcome, but positive people looking to help others for free will be embraced.

Life is short, too short to manipulate what others think and tell others what to do and act, but that's just my opinion

We are starting on registering the website this week

XML definitions start next week

Some hard work has already been done by others

v2.0 413 Tuning thread - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum

It appears that E34 M5 has already been defined in XML, so I'm sure the Mark D cheerleaders will be next to try to derail our efforts

Ostrich 2.0/TunerProRT Address hit tracing on BMW Motronic 1.3 - YouTube

What are people's thoughts on us using tunerpro to help with the XML?

A good review of it here with screenshots...,

DIY Tuning walk-through (TunerPro) - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

I wonder why the people that did this two years ago have not been as vocal as those that have paid for evolve or Powerchip software

Let's stay on topic, I request again that this is not the place to cheer for your loved or hated brand

Brands are not relevant to us, it's now solely about the ones and zeros

And thanks for the support by private message, I expected the flaming publicly, but the private messages of support of the project suprized me

If nothing else, we can offer SAI fix with readiness set for E39 to people for about $30, isn't that alone enough to make this project worthwhile

I thought most people saw competition as a way of improving products and lowering costs to consumers

Isn't that a good thing? lol

You guys can still cheer for your hated or trusted brands on here, it's just that we won't tolerate it for a second on our board lol

This is just another choice people have, the moderators are doing this unpaid and will not be profiting for helping

Cinsumers have Eurocharged and ESS as well as a hundred other options, what's wrong with us offering one more?

But the community alone will decide it's success, I'm sure when the other websites look at peoples opinions here they will laugh at what has been posted by owners of existing commercial software

Please include email addresses in your PM's I can't reply by PM, only by email*

I'm giving the snake oil away, not selling it

Our snake oil is about $30, if you want to pay more you are free to do so

AGAIN, this is to get people interested in helping to contact me

When (and if) we have a product we believe can compete with commercial tunes we will respectfully submit it to the board for its opinions

The offer of a blind test under controlled at any tuning company (including Evolve) will be made

But given the attitudes you can be sure that when we have a product to crow about its going to rand up to whatever criticism is thrown

The moderator that made the tune? I'm sure he will be a transvestite or best friends with Julian Assange. Come to think of it the mud being thrown here is not dissimilar to wiki leaks, Julian isnt going to win a popularity contest amongst the republican leaning set

We have the information, Its time others had it available as well,

mattmartindrift

anyone have this fella's IP address?

desmotesta

Why dont you answer a simple and direct question?

Are you the infamous Wayne from Powerchip? Answer that and lets see how "honest" and forthcoming you really are.

__________________
02 TiAG M5 - 74K Mls, Matt's latest Alpha-N, Muffler delete, E60 SSK, UUC DSSR, Dinan Strut braces, Dinan Sway Bar
02 Audi A6 Quattro
04 Aprilia RS250 (Race)
90 Honda CB-1 (Wife's race bike)
2004 Yamaha PW50 (son's)

josiahg52

Full disclosure: I am an Evolve lover.

YOU are DIRECTLY and EXPLICITLY challenging Powerchip and 'other' brands and, by that action, their customers in your VERY OWN postS and you are surprised, even annoyed when those customers speak out? Perhaps you are in need of some recalibration.

The thing I don't understand is that you are offering a product THAT DOESN'T EVEN COMPETE WITH A TUNING COMPANY. You are offering SOFTWARE and the ABILITY to do home tuning not a tune itself. YOU have nothing to offer in competition.

I am NOT surprised to see you marginalizing us and are beginning to feel threatened. You obviously know quality when you see it. However, I am quite shocked that you are offering testing at any tuning company, including Evolve. If the Power-joke debacle showed anything it is that ANYONE (even a cut-rate tuner hack like Wayne) can get into the tables, mess with some of the tables and default values and make it SEEM like you have a better running engine with more power. YOU do not have a product to GIVE to anyone! What are YOU going to offer to these 'other' tuners to test against?

On the other hand, if you are going to use this software to get into an Evolve tuned DME, make some "proprietary" changes and then pawn it off as your own maybe it will work for you. Then you will be able to "prove all of us wrong" and show what a wonderful product you have. THAT is the ONLY way I see this working for YOU personally.

So what IS the end game for you? I KNOW you are looking for something at the tail end.

If you were really into this for the "good of E39 M5 owners", if YOU really gave a crap about us then you would offer this software straight up. You would not be looking for sponsorships, even DONATIONS for the sponsorship (that is "lol") and you definitely wouldn't be taking this tact.

You will not sell this concept by marginalizing, belittling or 'lol"-ing at those who decided to "play it safe" and go with a "commercial" tune. I went with a commercial tune, am happy with the tune and plan to stick with a commercial tune and I would appreciate you not patronizing me by calling me a “cheerleader” and then in the same breath that “you understand” if people want to stick with their purchased tunes. Save it.

So, you sir, are the one that started down that path and now you got what you wanted, right? And don’t go crying to the moderators like another seemingly upstart E39 M5 tuning company called Power-joke (sic) who started posting on this forum and then got all cranky-pants when everyone didn’t start patting him on the back telling him how great he was.

Get over yourself already.

Quite frankly, I don't much like your attitude and I will not attempt to hide that fact after the whole Power-joke debacle.

I am through pandering to your ilk.

/R

P.S. It is strange that when you do enough reading as I have you begin to pick up syntax and rythym or even the tendency of an author to use certain phrases and terms. Kind of like if you are student of classical music, you begin to hear the themes that certain composers use throughout their life. It kind of makes an author immediately identifiable to the trained and experienced reader . . .

rao

A large percentage of people are quite capable of self-tuning with very good results and this thread is reinforcing the idea that the opposite is true.

Try not to let the tone of the OP taint the whole notion of tuning (BTW, I'd like any transmission left at my door to be T-56s so that I have some use for them ).

If open source or low cost tools (even high cost tools) are available to tune the s62 it would be a good thing for the people who own or are interested in the s62.

__________________
Rob


Current - 98 540i with Chevy 6.6 LS2/T-56 power - Build Thread
Old - 92 325i with Chevy 6.6 LS2/T-56 Power
Older - 95 M3 with Chevy 6.6 LS2/T-56 Power

Please read the important REVISED DISCLAIMER that applies to this post.

josiahg52

I agree with you, Rob . . .

. . . but then do it already. Stop messing around, stop asking for money, stop asking for sponsorships and do it already. I am going to be asked to pay less FOR less. I don't see where the savings are? I feel I got exactly what I paid for going with Evolve: a LOT of testing and a QUALITY product that I think pushes the NA S62 as far as it can go. I think I can do any better? It is one thing if people only want to change one little aspect like "SPORT" on or something like that, that could be done cheaply, but to offer it as an alternative to those tuning companies? There is no doubt, however, that SOME poeple would take a product like this and run with it.

The problem for me is that the tone was all wrong from the beginning AND continues to be wrong and I just cannot let that go. I am sorry.

Nabio

I agree with the "open-source is good" sentiment, and I think more information and power to the people is better. Porting tuning maps to XML to allow for easy modification and remapping or whatever it is exactly that the OP is proposing would be a good thing for the community (and probably a good thing for used S62 prices too).

With that said, I still like to know who I'm dealing with. Having been part of various true open-source endeavors, a big part of them is the community behind the project. Everyone knows who everyone else is. I just feel like this is some mysterious figure saying "trust me," making me wary.

__________________
Jet Black 2000 M5

Mike S.

Someone up-thread made the comment about "opening the kimono," which is what this open-source project would certainly do. However, I have seen the kimono open, thanks to Sal, and I have to tell you there is no way I'd muck around in there. Way too far over my head for my comfort level.

__________________
El Insecto Asesino - 2003 M5 TiAg / Tuning by Evolve / Exhaust by Timmay77 / ECM by Valentine / Fast by Nature - "She's fast enough for you old man."

What I do in my spare time: Aura Caelestis, Metal Band From Texas. Check us out! Comments welcomed!

mkaehly

I like being quoted Mike lol

I totally agree with being afraid to touch. . .I am a pretty smart techie (not to toot). . .20 years of IT Systems /Network Engineering/Application Performance Optimization for the likes of the Fortune 100's of the world. What Sal showed me via these same tools that are being discussed was not meant for shadetree's or weekend ecu hackers (there are always exceptions Rob not that you are either of those). . .it's serious coding, with real consequence that needs the ability to monitor, track, log, report and model. . .which means more "tools" and hardware (anyone say dyno?) to get a product that is worthy of most of our requirements from our engines.

If you want to do this FOR YOURSELF it's a great opportunity to learn. . .that is about it. . .unless you have R&D resources don't share your "improvements" with a global community. . .this is not a DNS server guys. . .there is open-source IT (like ubuntu/linux (not redhat mind you) which is NEVER used in Mission Critical Environments) and there is OPEN-SOURCE STANDARDS (like API calls to Brokers or Application Translators like OPENSTACK to get nerdy for a sec). . . .don't confuse the two.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .but let's also be clear on what the criteria for success is. . .open-souce tuning WILL NEVER take the place of Funded/Structured R&D developers like EVOLVE.

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"boy. . .that escalated quickly. . . I mean that really got out of hand fast. . . ."