turbotoaster

So lets just summerise what we all believe to be the issues with turboing a S62 engine.


1. That due to the thin walls in the block between the pistons without sleeving the block, running excessive boost cannot be achieved....im assuming its because the block will crack from excessive combustion pressure.....this of course can be managed by fuel type and ignition advance, or sleeves with your pushing it

2. Pistons are faily high compression hence hitting the 'det' level fairly early, again fuel and ignition advance can help manage that, or low comp pistons if your pushing it(personally i would fit 8.5:1 so i can really make some big torque on pump fuel)

3. The belief that the stock ecu can not have a MAP sensor encorporated into the ECU easily which would mean your MAP would be RPM vs BOOST instead of its current configuration(im guessing RPM vs LOAD) it is belived that Dinan has encorporated a MAP sensor into the ECU already so it can be done, but no one wants to pay for someone else to figure it out.
3a. From that you would say the easiest thing to do would be to swap ECUs with a standalone, i would choose maybe AEM as i know you can control VANOS with it from HPF, but then i know there are other ECUs that will also easily do it.


As people have mentioned, the actual fabricating is the easy part, i dont think your gonna get anyone who is going to do it in Kit form, just make it for themselves/for a customer

So realistically i dont see a massive hurdle that you cannot get over.

All this $50000-$100000 costs to do it is a load of rubbish to be honest, im sure if you wanted to have $30000-$60000 worth of profit then yes that would be the retail cost, but to do it yourself will cost a fraction of that.


So to check, we have already see people run close to 1bar of boost on these engines through a supercharger with intercooler and meth, the engines can take it.

I think the only thing holding people back is the avaliability of ESS supercharger kits, its a fully tested kit with all the bits you need, now if you fit a intercooler and meth you should be at 600bhp which is enough for most people, but then if you want more this is where the problem lies.

We are already measuring up space at the moment for the 2 oil cooled T04e turbos, which will sit roughly where the stock airboxes are, the issue we see is fitting in the 3inch downpipes, the turbos are internally gated to make things simplier so with a bit of rerouting of pipes etc they should make it, then connecting up to the Cats with simple V bands, of course with will drop the overall flow of the exhaust flow but at the point the gas velocity should have cooled enough to get away with it.

Again ECU i did originally think that it would be tuned by Evolve but if they cant do it ill get an aftermarket ecu and have it tuned elsewhere, id like to run Autronic but it depends whether it can control the VANOS

Fuel will be provided by larger ID injectors and twin bosch 044 pumps.

2 seperate intercoolers with electric fan on the rad to allow for more space.


Im sure many think that its a pipe dream but unless someone can tell me why this will fail over any other N/A engine thats been turbocharged over the years i really cant see the issue

rao

Post up some pictures after the turbos are installed and running.

You folks are all looking at this the wrong way - you really need to get over the obsession with "pretty" mechanical things and features lists.

The way to do a turbo s62 is not all that hard.

You DO NOT need spindly looking Medusa headers which will likely last about a month in real world driving.
You DO NOT need equal length exhaust manifolds - they add no MATERIAL benefit in a turbo application.
You DO NOT need twin turbos - sure is fun to say "twins" and ooh and aah over pictures, but the packaging constraints and cost increases caused by using 2 turbos instead of one is not worth it, especially at the relatively low power numbers you are seeking.

You need some ugly looking LOG manifolds built out of HEAVY gauge material (I would experiment with flipping the stock manifolds or swapping them side to side before I got out the welder) and a SINGLE turbo. From there sort out the engine management and away you go.

Making it more complicated than it needs to be is a waste of time.

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Rob


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mattmartindrift

Of course it can be done. Your list is great and all, but if it's that easy (and I agree that it is) and low cost (disagree), why hasn't it been done? People spend ~$30k on Dinan S3 setups, so....show them the light.


I'll just say this:

Show me a single, solitary power-making S62 Turbo that is even 50% emissions legal, and i'll drop everything right now.

mattmartindrift

what foolish ideas!!!!!!





log manifolds: heavy, no-power-making useless crap.

Ponyboy

Traction. If you don't have traction, which few high hp cars do (unless they're on slicks or using an aggressive traction control function from their standalone) then 1000hp is useless. Once the 1000hp car does get traction, and the driver's red mist fades, the race, either to the end of the 1/4 mile or the next turn, would likely be over.

The important point that you're failing to understand is that there is a law of diminishing returns as hp increases in any given chassis. In addition, all of your above quote goes out the window on a road course where driver skill is even more important.

mattmartindrift

I can't even get the S/C folks out to HPDEs. Wwhat makes you think any one of these folks would make it out there with a turbo S62!?

Ponyboy

I have the same issue with getting people out to DEs. Seems the people that have the most money into their cars don't necessarily want to potentially break them despite the intent of what the cars/parts were made for. Meh, I understand that to a degree.

Haven't S62s been turbo'd in 850s fairly successfully?

mattmartindrift

I think you're thinking about the Dinan 850s which were M72s...arguably an over-complex setup, too.

HaydenM5

Honestly I only see one problem:

Engine management

What you need to do is ask THIS question:

"Evolve (or other company), If I supply you with a well designed well maintained turbo M5, how much would you charge to tune it to 7psi of boost"

That's it. Really. I think there is plenty of brainpower availiable to make a nice twin turbo (or single turbo) setup that would run on pump gas and work every day. But again, its all in the engine management and tuning. It takes a LONG time to set up a car from scratch. I know because I have done it with RX7's when there was almost no knowledge base or tuning options. Its a serious test of patience to not break something. If it were me, I wouldn't be surprised if Evolve needed 3k-5k of labor time to tune a turbo car. Probably more than that.

My point is....stop worrying about the mechanical hardware.

turbotoaster

This guy has it spot on, we was having this discuss about a month ago, saying we should use the stock manifolds, connect them up and weld a T3 flange on them, or have one side brought over so its a single turbo setup, basically copying a subaru boxer engine, but then because the turbos would almost be at sump height so you would need oil pump/pumps.

The issue we were unsure of is you would want a BW475/GT42 single turbo with a T6 turbine housing and would there be space for a 5inch downpipe.

You cant do it like the 8 series one on youtube because the front of the engine is to close to the slam panel so it would mean running the turbo either where the ESS supercharger sits or lower down, the turbo will fit where the ESS is, but theres no room for a 5inch pipe.

You could run it in the bumper area if theres room, kind of like the drag turbo honda civic boys, either small single each side or one big one in boxer configuration.


My manifolds wont be equal length fancy things, they will just be a way of connecting the turbo to the head. One of the pains is going to be moving all the stuff around the strut tops if you want to run a downpipes there, we have thought about running the turbos really far forward so that you can send the downpipes down before the strut tops/oil filter/abs unit, but then you have the issue of fitting airfilters on the turbos



I believe the reason it hasnt been done is two fold..........supercharging is easy, everything is setup ready to go and it makes realiable power, if you looking up to 600bhp then theres really no need to even contemplate looking at turbo setups.

Now alot of people say 600bhp is more than enough and the issue for me isnt the power, its the weight, running around in a 1200-1300kg with 600bhp is ample and will be enough for everyone......but when your dragging around 1800kg+ then it makes a difference, it works out as only 333bhp/ton, which frankly isnt very exciting if your used to much faster things.


I also think one of the issues over in the US is your profit margins are massive and your e39 m5 still cost alot, hence you believe there should be a M// tax on all products, over in the UK we dont see it the same way, to us its just a saloon thats a bit quicker than the run of the mill taxi.

For example my M5 cost $7000, has no rust, 74k miles, full BMW service history, mountain of paperwork and everything works on it, i know over in the US ill bet it would cost twice that.

Look at ESS kit, ill bet theres at least $2500 profit in that kit at $6500 so the costs of DINAN are just silly, noone in the UK would pay DINAN money, we would rather just change to a E60 M5 for that money.

That guy who is building is own supercharge kit to retail will undercut ESS and still make a healthy profit, you can just get the supercharger(id go for a V4 for more power) and make your own brackets on a miller to build a cheap kit for about $4-5k.

Of course i cant show you a s62 turbo as theres only one i know that actually works, but i cant see why you cant make it pass emmisions if you have the CATS in place and you dont need to change the ignition/fuel for a vehicle when its idling whether its got a turbo on it or not.