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Old 30th August 2011, 16:32   #1
timmay77
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Deleting the Secondary Air Pump (SAP). Effects on the Beast.....

Ok, I know this has been discussed in depth, but I want an up to date opinion from those that are in the know. I am hoping all of the S62 gurus will give some input and put this query to rest. I will be getting a CAI kit soon, I hope, and have been stressing over what to do about the SAP. Of course the option to turn it upside down is always there, but what if I wanted to delete it all together?

Here is a thread I have been reading to get a little insight.

Help: Cold air intake install

These are the posts that I am worried about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E55AMG2 View Post
I did it by accident, when I installed my Dinan CAI. Thats how I found out. Active Autowerke sold some resistors for E36's with TU engines for exactly that purpose. Im sure someone here can dig up the specs on what the DME is looking for in terms of resistance and make some up. The only issue is that the engine will continue to fuel as if the SAP was still there during warm up causing a super rich condition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by russap5 View Post
I don't think any more fuel is injected during the 2 minute period. All the secondary air system is doing is adding air to the exhaust gasses so that they burn off more of the fuel in the rich mix since the engine isn't warm enough yet to do it itself. Without the SAP the exhaust is just a little richer than usual, for 2 minutes..

I could definitely be wrong, but I don't think there is any change in engine management. In this case it is only an issue for the environment..
Quote:
Originally Posted by E55AMG2 View Post
Fuel will be burning into the exhaust and damage the cats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E55AMG2 View Post
I did it by accident, when I installed my Dinan CAI. Thats how I found out. Active Autowerke sold some resistors for E36's with TU engines for exactly that purpose. Im sure someone here can dig up the specs on what the DME is looking for in terms of resistance and make some up. The only issue is that the engine will continue to fuel as if the SAP was still there during warm up causing a super rich condition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by russap5 View Post
I don't think any more fuel is injected during the 2 minute period. All the secondary air system is doing is adding air to the exhaust gasses so that they burn off more of the fuel in the rich mix since the engine isn't warm enough yet to do it itself. Without the SAP the exhaust is just a little richer than usual, for 2 minutes..

I could definitely be wrong, but I don't think there is any change in engine management. In this case it is only an issue for the environment..
Quote:
Originally Posted by russap5 View Post
Yea that's the only possible downside. I for one don't give a rats @$$ about cats..

I still want to see if there is a way to use the software to get rid of the fault code from removing the SAP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E55AMG2 View Post
You might as well get the entire cold start changed at that point. I wonder if Evolve can help...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAD TA WS6 View Post
You guys aren't getting the MAIN thing here... You aren't going to complete Readiness Monitors for OBD testing with ANYONES software. I fought with ESS for this exact reason, only due to some confusion between our emails.

Even if they delete the codes for Inadequate Air Flow, you still won't complete the test for OBDII monitoring. So when it comes time for OBDII testing (required in most States) you will not pass. And if you do, you will only pass with 1 readiness monitor incomplete (Secondary Air). Basically, you're Secondary Air systemm will always show up as "Not Ready."

Very annoying, I've been working on this for years. I can cure the issue on E46 cars, as I have with our Continental Tire Challenge car. But I do not have the chassis codes to do so on any other car.


As for an above post referring to "Euro Shops" being able to disable the SAP, that is incorrect. GT1, SSS, AutoLogic, yadda yadda yadda... NONE of the above (most powerfull) diagnostic equipment will turn off any such code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by russap5 View Post
Thanks for the info. So you're saying none of the ESS S/C cars will pass a standard state inspection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAD TA WS6 View Post
Well they aren't going to pass Secondary Air readiness. So thats 1 monitor. It varies state to state, depending on year.

In NH, up to 2001, you are allowed 2 monitors "Not Ready". 2002+ and you are allowed 1 monitor. So if you aren't running cats, and the efficiency codes are deleted (no check engine light, but you still won't complete OBDII readiness for the cat) you are SOL if you also deleted the air pump.

For example, on my Trans Am, I can spend $400 bucks on tuning software, and do whatever I want. No cats, no evap, no secondary air, no heated O2s, etc. And I can still pass with flying colors, and be undetectable computer/OBDII wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E55AMG2 View Post
Exactly, you'd need to actually change the code in the DME, GT1 (or any other programmer) can't do that.

PS,

Peter, I know we already discussed this, I thought it would be nice to share what you and I discussed privately...... IF you are ok with that....
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:42   #2
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Don't stress, this one is easy.

Unless you have the ability to modify the ECU programming to eliminate the entire system that is dealing with the air pump, don't even think about removing it. If you live in a state that has OBD II testing and you decide to have the ECU reprogrammed, MAKE SURE that whoever the magician is knows about readiness flags and makes sure that your will be properly set, otherwise you are in for trouble. Given what I know about the state of M5 ECU tuning, I would relocate the pump, it is not that big of a deal.
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:42   #3
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OBD2 is the downside, I think that's all there is to it.

you either fool the system into believing the SAP is there, or accept the 1 or 2 not-ready codes.
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:44   #4
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Fooling the ECU is not a bad way to go either, but it is so inelegant in an M5

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Old 30th August 2011, 16:45   #5
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Mine was deleted with the ESS kit 2 years ago. I have passed NC inspection twice since our state allows one 'not ready'. I cannot comment on its effect to the cats or the environment. I'm assuming ESS would have considered any potential ill effects on the car, but who knows.
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:50   #6
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We do not have inspections in Ohio, not a concern for me, but may be for other members.
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:53   #7
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If you are worried about the rich mixture upon cold startup destroying the cats - don't.
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Old 30th August 2011, 17:08   #8
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You are obviously aware of the Not ready issue, not an issue if the rest of the car is in top shape as yours is. The "what" this system does is get the cat working faster. It is very much like blowing on a fire that is just an ember. If you look at how many cars have this system plugged, if something bad was going to happen you would know about it already. Guy's throwing the AA code don't come back a year later and say my cats are done.

Mine is plugged on one bank and it is my intention to plumb directly to my new headers, but the headers would be on the car if I would just skip this idea. I do believe the SAP brings the whole engine up to temp faster and as far as I'm concerned that is a very good thing. That and that alone is a good enough reason to fix or keep the system. I am sure you have heard the old adage of X% of wear on an engine occurs during warm up. I figure the faster you get it up to temp the better.
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Old 30th August 2011, 20:06   #9
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For those that are worried about OBDII readiness it can be reinstalled pretty fast before your inspection, then removed again. Reinstall it a week or so before so the readiness monitors can reset...

In Washington we can have 1 not ready for 03 and newer, the 01's and 02's can have 2 not ready and pass...

Sounds like in Ohio, you don't need to sweat it... and if you're worried about your cats, just remove those too!
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Old 31st August 2011, 02:45   #10
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What RAO said; no worries about your cats or the temporarily rich mixture. I should have such problems! Oy vez!

Just delete it and have PC or Evolve program the ECU to ignore the error. You'll be fine.

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