E90 M3 clutch vs E39 M5 clutch - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

stuka · 27th August 2011, 07:10

So, we finally took delivery of a Melbourne red/cloth manual E90 M3 with convenience, ZCP, SAT, side shades, split seats, and yes, no sunroof because we needed another sedan for the two kids.

I know the M3 is new, and I need more seat time, but damn it the clutch sucks big dead donkey balls.

I got in the M5 today after not having driven it in a month except getting it back from the dealership after they fixed the vibration damper that was causing random misfires SES and after having put over 100 miles over a period since delivery on the M3.

I was startled at how natural and effortless it was to get the car going quickly in 1st in the M5.

The M3 on the other hand, has this soft as butter zero feel clutch that is difficult to do really fast low rpm 1st gear take off like you can in the M5. It was totally flash back to the crappy over assisted clutch of the 996 Turbo for me.

It's like they want you to get the DCT so they make the clutch so ficking infuriatingly difficult to drive.

I wish there is a mod to fix this.

The 996 Turbo clutch can be fixed by retrofitting the GT2 clutch system at about a grand, I will gladly pay a grand to fix this on the M3.

I wish companies will stop outdoing each other in how crappy they can make the clutch pedal feel to a driver. About the only 2011 sports cars with manual that has decent clutches are the GT cars from Porsche. BMW clutehs are horrific, so are the 08 S4 Avant that we had.

Too bad I can't put the E39 M5 clutch feel in the E90 M3.

In conclusion, somethings shouldn't be "improved." Older BMW clutches like our M5 or the E36 M3 for example, do not need to be "improved upon."

E55AMG2 · 27th August 2011, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuka

It's like they want you to get the DCT so they make the clutch and shifter so ficking infuriatingly $hitty to drive.

Fixed. Im not sure why anyone would pass on the DCT for that car, it's infintely superior to the manual....

The only way to improve the feel would be to change the slave cyl with another BMW unit that fits.

stuka · 27th August 2011, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by E55AMG2

Fixed. Im not sure why anyone would pass on the DCT for that car, it's infintely superior to the manual....

The only way to improve the feel would be to change the slave cyl with another BMW unit that fits.

My wife appreciates the technical achievement of the SMG type transmission and has driven the E46 M3 SMG, but thinks it's cheating for the car to rev match for you.

And since this is the car that she will mostly drives, we got the 6 speed.

CSBM5 · 27th August 2011, 12:38

My wife is the same way. She could care less about driving a car with an automated transmission and instead wants to "experience" driving, shifting, using the clutch, feeling fully connected with the car. You may want to investigate whether the E9x M3 uses a CDV. The parts catalog lists it for the M3, so it might have one. If so, contact Dave Zeckhausen as you can get a properly gutted one for ~$30, swap it in, and nobody will know the difference (when servicing the car).

mattmartindrift · 27th August 2011, 13:55

dct =/= smg

E55AMG2 · 27th August 2011, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuka

My wife appreciates the technical achievement of the SMG type transmission and has driven the E46 M3 SMG, but thinks it's cheating for the car to rev match for you.

And since this is the car that she will mostly drives, we got the 6 speed.

Fair enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSBM5

My wife is the same way. She could care less about driving a car with an automated transmission and instead wants to "experience" driving, shifting, using the clutch, feeling fully connected with the car. You may want to investigate whether the E9x M3 uses a CDV. The parts catalog lists it for the M3, so it might have one. If so, contact Dave Zeckhausen as you can get a properly gutted one for ~$30, swap it in, and nobody will know the difference (when servicing the car).

Even when the clutch and shifter feel are awful or nonexistent? That's the reason I'd choose the DCT over the 6MT on modern BMWs. Also the fact that the engines were designed for SMG/DCT and the manuals were an afterthought.

cab · 27th August 2011, 21:02

Frankly, I am unimpressed with our M5 clutch feel so that is really disappointing that you think the latest M3 is even worse (I am considering one as my next car). The engagement point on the M5 clutch is a little too on/off for my liking. It isn't horrible mind you, but my old E36 was better. The M5's torque probably crutches the issue a bit comparison to the M3.

E55AMG2 · 27th August 2011, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab

Frankly, I am unimpressed with our M5 clutch feel so that is really disappointing that you think the latest M3 is even worse (I am considering one as my next car). The engagement point on the M5 clutch is a little too on/off for my liking. It isn't horrible mind you, but my old E36 was better. The M5's torque probably crutches the issue a bit comparison to the M3.

The OEM M5 clutch is a bit on/off, but you can at least feel when the clutch engages/disengages. On my UUC V12 (I have the E39 slave with the E31 pin), you can really feel it working and the pedal is very firm and heavy (my preference). The new BMW's (E60/63, and 90/92 335, and M3) have honda civic light pedals, and a shifter that feels like it's connected to nothing. It feels like playing a video game simulator, except that you're actually moving.

CSBM5 · 27th August 2011, 22:10

Having owned an E90 6MT since new and now with 90k miles on it (wife's daily), I can't relate to the comments about the shifter at all. It feels solid and very well connected to me (better than the M5 actually). The clutch isn't in anything awful either. It is light, but it is easy to modulate and launch the car...even with the CDV in it. I've had the fake CDV now for way too long...need to get around to putting that in it. The times I've driven the E90 M3 I didn't have any issue with the clutch at all, and the shifter felt great.

E55AMG2 · 27th August 2011, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Having owned an E90 6MT since new and now with 90k miles on it (wife's daily), I can't relate to the comments about the shifter at all. It feels solid and very well connected to me (better than the M5 actually). The clutch isn't in anything awful either. It is light, but it is easy to modulate and launch the car...even with the CDV in it. I've had the fake CDV now for way too long...need to get around to putting that in it. The times I've driven the E90 M3 I didn't have any issue with the clutch at all, and the shifter felt great.

It moves way too easily, and feels rubbery (the shifter) vs the nice mechanical snick you get with even the OEM M5 shifter. And the clutch is super light and picks up way too close to the floor w/o much feel. Does not feel sporty in the least.