ATTN: Fred RE: Headers - Page 3

tfung · 27th June 2002, 05:01

Angel,
3 days to make? let's see.... 8 hours a day at $50 an hour... that's $1200 labor for the guy who makes it... still very far off from $8000 price he's selling it at.... even if I pay the guy $100 an hour, which is impossible, the math still doesn't work out... so my guess is that Steve Dinan is pulling your leg... haha...

KirklandM5 · 27th June 2002, 07:31

Ok....The gross profit margins seems high...., BUT remember DINAN's been working on this for 2 years!!!!

How much does a Silicon Valley Engineer get paid per year with benefits? Lets say $125K/yr.

So that's $250K in salary for 1 R&D engineer for 2 years!. plus all the Dyno time on that $70K Dyno they have....Plus all the labor involved taking the headers on/off...Plus getting CARB exemption to pass smog tests ($50K for this alone).

How many of these things can they realistically sell? Let's see, from 2000-2003, BMW will probably sell about 10K M5s in the US. Let's say 3% get the headers. That's only 300 units!

So that's why it costs a **** load of money. If BMW did this they would've spent EVEN more money, but they can allocate the R&D costs over a lot more cars.

JL

atomic80 · 27th June 2002, 09:02

I still think I want to get the headers. I also find that its easier for me to trust Dinan more than any of the other tuners when it comes to research and development especially since he doesn't cut any corners and takes his time doing it too! How many other tuners do you know that does that and stands behind their products with a complete warranty solution!

tfung · 27th June 2002, 12:09

Quote:

Originally posted by KirklandM5
So that's $250K in salary for 1 R&D engineer for 2 years!. plus all the Dyno time on that $70K Dyno they have....Plus all the labor involved taking the headers on/off...Plus getting CARB exemption to pass smog tests ($50K for this alone).

I highly doubt the hired an engineer to do the R&D just for these headers.....

Apples · 27th June 2002, 13:38

So l presume you get Dinan Headers and tuned ECU to match it's new parameters.....any other things l missed...l hope so???
I wonder how they are going to "tweak" the ECU when they say thats is not really possible to extract much out it in it's OEM state.....Dinan web site??
Am l right in thinking that they say it will make around 470hp??

I'm no expert....by a long way, but as we know the M5 headers are just off the shelf 540 ones, and the weak link in it's higher RPM power production....but how week.
I have Nowacks headers/high flow cats/75mm piping/Nowack Exhaust and l'm not seeing the power Nowack claim......yes l know that my dealings with Nowack has been a pain in the *** many times , and that Dinan are the real thing and make us feel all fuzzy warm inside about their warranty....but for that warranty they suck the money out of your pocket for a month of Sundays till your dry......l will be a Dinan customer if what they say is for real at another time.....boy am l the sucker.

I wonder how much air and M5 heads can handle.....anyone got a flow bench laying around to test if they can flow 450+hp OEM??
When l was talking to Nowack about headers ln the early part of "the game" they were talking about some gains in just the headers, but what l remember it wasn't much more then 20-30hp?
I don't know lf my Nowacked M5 is a good example of a "tuned" beast, and as you know l'm not 100% confident that l'm running with 500+hp that they say, but saying that it seems to me (non expert) that the M5 needs much more then headers for a 70hp hike
I would like to know whats the sort of works done, for this amount of money on this header package and the tested/real power gains.
APPLES

Angel · 27th June 2002, 13:52

I don't think the headers alone will give you 70 more ponies. I think you would have to include the rest of the new upgrades for the full 70 ponies.

I also think that Dinan's history with hp/torque numbers have been rather accurate. We shall soon see.

atomic80 · 27th June 2002, 16:08

Angel,

You're right...I do remember reading that you would need the exhaust, CAI and the software upgrades in addition to the headers in order to get 70 HP.

Apples,

Do you know how much Nowack sells their headers for? I'd be interested in seeing the price differences between the two especially since Nowack might actually have a good solution too.

Apples · 27th June 2002, 17:24

Are Dinans headers one single unit ....aka..Nowack because needed total engine removal for their fitting. I think Dinans headers are in pieces for easy fitting and no engine removal....right???
I think their price would/could/is half of Dinans, but they more then likley won't sell them to a customer just on a single order. They are more into the package deals.
Atomic80.... It wouldn't hurt to send them an email to find out if they would do some for you???
www.info@nowack-tuning.de
APPLES

Angel · 27th June 2002, 17:27

Nowack will NOT sell the headers alone.....I tried. Hamman is the same way but a few people managed to get them.

atomic80 · 27th June 2002, 17:35

Actually, I'm told that you do have to remove the engine in order to put the Dinan headers in place which is why there is so many hours involved in the labor process. I could be wrong though. Fred would probably know.

If Nowack will not sell the headers separately then I'm not interested.