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Old 6th June 2011, 02:56   #1
kevin711
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running rough on start , runs fine if I restart

So if I start my car (can be cold from over night or after being off for 30 minutes) it runs rough to the point where I can't drive it at all. The RPM's are bouncing (without any throttle applied) between just above 0 to 1500 or so. The car never stalls and seems to smoothen out after a minute or two, but once I try driving again, it gets rough again.

If I shut off the car and start it right back up, it runs fine as if nothing happened. The SES light is not on.

I borrowed a Peake scanner from a friend and get:
69 - “Engine coolant temperature, Plausibility”

Any ideas?
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Old 6th June 2011, 19:27   #2
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Do you know about the secret OBC menu and tests? Here is a link Gadget Freaks II: Fun you never knew you could have [secret menu] now you need to look at that temp which is listed at ktemp (sorry forget which test) 7? maybe. Tell me the temp before start what it gets to then shut off read temp again before restart and then last the temp when you have it warmed up and are driving around.
Note if the temp bounces around or if stable.
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Old 6th June 2011, 22:07   #3
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I just did that secret menu test, the Ktemp stays between 88 and 89 celcius at idle after driving the car for about 20 minutes. I'll grab the other readings once I get a chance, popping into a meeting now.

The car is driving ok right now, I'll try to get the readings when it's idling rough.

I also filled up with new gas (I had 1/4 tank left prior) just to make sure it wasn't sucking up dirty gas near the bottom of the tank.

Last edited by kevin711; 6th June 2011 at 22:08.
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Old 6th June 2011, 23:18   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin711 View Post
I just did that secret menu test, the Ktemp stays between 88 and 89 celcius at idle after driving the car for about 20 minutes. I'll grab the other readings once I get a chance, popping into a meeting now.

The car is driving ok right now, I'll try to get the readings when it's idling rough.

I also filled up with new gas (I had 1/4 tank left prior) just to make sure it wasn't sucking up dirty gas near the bottom of the tank.
Not sure what your outside temps are, but 88-89C seems a bit high to me for idling after a normal drive. My highway temps generally are in the mid 80's.

Peake code 69 is often a bad tstat. They tend to fail in the open position, so the car runs cold. See how the car runs on the highway, anything below 78-79C generally means tstat needs replacing.

Since the problem goes away with restart, it sounds electrical. That always leads me to check the MAF's (and when you unlock the OBC, you can do the dynamic MAF test, #4, option #2) and the 4 CPS.

Regards,
Jerry
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Old 7th June 2011, 01:46   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
Do you know about the secret OBC menu and tests? Here is a link Gadget Freaks II: Fun you never knew you could have [secret menu] now you need to look at that temp which is listed at ktemp (sorry forget which test) 7? maybe. Tell me the temp before start what it gets to then shut off read temp again before restart and then last the temp when you have it warmed up and are driving around.
Note if the temp bounces around or if stable.
Ok, my results:
temperature before start: 60 C (car was parked for 3 hours)
temperature peak while driving: 90 C (stop and go rush hour)
temperature after shutoff: 87 C
temperature while driving around: 89 C

Outside temperature is approx 25 C
Driving style was very granny.

The car drove normal, no erratic idle or bucking/sputtering. It does however feel like it's quieter but that might be in my head...
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Old 7th June 2011, 01:59   #6
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Do it one more time when the car has sat over night but that 60c is likely telling you that your temp sender is done. Three hours may not be enough time. The reason the car runs bad is it is trying to start thinking it is warmer than it is. A lot will be adjusted wrong for it to start clean. The car does not believe it either or would not throw the 69 code. If you have not done so you might as well do the T-stat too, they fail, most cars have had them replaced once or twice. It maybe hidden in the faulty temp sender.

Tomorrow morning the ktemp should be the exact same as the outside temp. Best of luck
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Old 7th June 2011, 06:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsfent View Post
Not sure what your outside temps are, but 88-89C seems a bit high to me for idling after a normal drive. My highway temps generally are in the mid 80's.

Peake code 69 is often a bad tstat. They tend to fail in the open position, so the car runs cold. See how the car runs on the highway, anything below 78-79C generally means tstat needs replacing.

Since the problem goes away with restart, it sounds electrical. That always leads me to check the MAF's (and when you unlock the OBC, you can do the dynamic MAF test, #4, option #2) and the 4 CPS.

Regards,
Jerry
I just did the MAF test 4, option 2 (L/H) and at idle after warmed up, I get 1.0 L/H at WOT in 3rd gear approaching 7000 rpm I get 90 L/h

I'm not sure where the "4 CPS" test is, can you elaborate?
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:59   #8
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Bouncing idle could be vacuum leak. Check hoses/gaskets.
1L/H in 3rd is outrageous. How old are the MAFS?

Last edited by chowdah; 7th June 2011 at 16:59.
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Old 7th June 2011, 17:30   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdah View Post
Bouncing idle could be vacuum leak. Check hoses/gaskets.
1L/H in 3rd is outrageous. How old are the MAFS?
Sorry, it is:
1 L/h at idle
90 L/h in 3rd gear WOT just before 7000 rpm
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Old 7th June 2011, 17:34   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
Do it one more time when the car has sat over night but that 60c is likely telling you that your temp sender is done. Three hours may not be enough time. The reason the car runs bad is it is trying to start thinking it is warmer than it is. A lot will be adjusted wrong for it to start clean. The car does not believe it either or would not throw the 69 code. If you have not done so you might as well do the T-stat too, they fail, most cars have had them replaced once or twice. It maybe hidden in the faulty temp sender.

Tomorrow morning the ktemp should be the exact same as the outside temp. Best of luck
So I let the car sit overnight (about 10 hours). Ambient temperature in the garage was 18 C in the morning (I park underground, no sun factor).

Before start: 31 C
Max temp crusing on highway: 84 C
Max temp in city driving: 93 C
Temp before shut off: 92 C
Temp right after shut off: 91 C

The temperature outside is 23 C
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