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How NOT to install a flywheel. Tim's failed clutch/flywheel/RMS install.

30K views 83 replies 44 participants last post by  djazz 
#1 ·
The story does have a happy ending.....

Well, the story begins here:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...en-working-your-car-you-need-read-thread.html


It ended today when we had the car towed back to my house so we (WingsAA, or Brain, from Ohiobimmers.com) could tear it down again to find out that I installed the flywheel incorrectly. I did not line it up with the dowel to ensure it was in time with the crank. I am a moron, an idiot, whatever, you would think I would have known this by now. This is my 4th one, but must have gotten VERY lucky on the other 3. Once we installed it correctly and put everything back together, the car fired right up. Lesson learned. From the time it was unloaded from the truck to the time we pulled it out of the garage it only took us 3 hours total. Not bad. The problems had NOTHING to do with hooking the battery back up with the ignition on. Sorry for leading the witch hunt guys. There was a TON of useful information in that thread though.

Pictures......

This shows what the back of the motor looks like with the flywheel removed. You can see the output shaft from the crank surrounded by the rear main seal. The red arrow points to the dowel pin on the crank. The other arrow shows where the pilot bearing will go.




This shows the one larger bolt hole that the dowel fits into. This view is of the back side of the flywheel. The side that goes against the crank/motor.




This is a picture of the front side of the flywheel, the side that the clutch attaches to. You can see the 2 little half moon marks that indicate the bolt that has the larger hole that the dowel should go into to correctly line up the crank (circled). The arrow is pointing to the pilot bearing installed.




This picture shows WHY this is so important. The Crank Position Sensor reads the missing "tombstones" as Raza called them, to tell the ECU that the crank is at Top Dead Center. I had the flywheel 2 holes off, so it was giving the ECU incorrect timing figures. That is why the car would not start.







All in all, it was a very informative weekend full of headache and worry. I am so happy and relieved we found the issue. THANK YOU to Raza, Steve, Peter, Chris, Brian, the other Brian, Mike, the other Mike at N.E. Motorsports, and to everyone in the other thread for the suggestions and kind words.

Phil has his car back, running perfectly. I'm sure no one is happier than him. Once again Phil, I AM SORRY. Thank you for being so wonderful about the whole thing. Chris and I were just talking about how we would be in your shoes. You are a trooper!! Thank you.





Now, commence with the making fun of me, I DESERVE IT. No flamesuit, I deserve to burn.
 
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#2 ·
Grats on finding it, Tim. No flames from me. We've all been there at one point or another. You've probably flagellated yourself worse than anyone here could anyway. :)

Did the dealership give you the clues you needed or did you figure it out beforehand?
 
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#7 · (Edited)
The dealership never even looked at it....... That's a whole different story......

I spoke on the phone with Raza last night who pointed it out, Steve mentioned it the day of the event but it slipped through the information cracks.

Thanks again to all for the help guys!
 
#3 ·
Glad it is sorted,mate!!!!!!!

No need to flame you,mistakes can happen to ANYONE of us working on our or friend's cars!
This is just a reminder for all of us,that ****e happens and how mature to deal with the situation like you guys did!

No damage exept the hassle,towing and time loss happened.

Lesson learned,now go back in the garage and keep up doing your good work!:M5thumbs:
 
#5 ·
Youre the man TIMMAY no matter what you say about yourself.
 
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#13 · (Edited)
It only bolts up correctly in ONE position. The dowel ONLY fits into the larger bolt hole opening......

dude you are such a noob, omg lulz...

LOL

-from the guy who dropped a bolt in his engine.
I never told anyone about that BTW.....

that dosent make a lot of sense, you shouldn't have even been able to bolt that flywheel up incorrectly. seems like it cant possibly sit flush against the end of the crank if the dowel isn't lined up correctly. is that new flywheel a oe bmw part?

The dowel is just made out of aluminum and crushed under the pressure folding itself into the opening of the flywheel. It was a PITA getting it out. The flywheel was sitting flush, I did measure and check that. I removed the crushed dowel and installed a new one.
 
#10 ·
You've been very noble in highlighting a 'very easy to do' error and then showing very clearly the information we all require to endure no-one else is unfortunate to repeat it. My regard of you has grown.

I bet that several other board members have done this previously but weren't man enough to admit to it.

May I suggest one more addition to the great information presented, that we discover the relationship between the position of the missing 'tombstones' (say, for example, when viewed through the crank sensor apperture) and the hole in the vibration damper disc at the front if the engine. If someone suspects that they have repeated the error, this could be a quick method of confirming if the flywheel is out or not.
 
#64 ·
You've been very noble in highlighting a 'very easy to do' error and then showing very clearly the information we all require to endure no-one else is unfortunate to repeat it. My regard of you has grown.
Bingo, well said.

I think you are only entitled to be flamed if you do it a second time. It was an interesting puzzle while it lasted.
Agree!

...It shows cojones to admit the boo-boo..
Tim you are far from an idiot. You made a mistake that anyone could make. You handled it in perfect fashion.
Honesty; Integrity; Guts.....Gentlemen, may I present Tim Hallman.
Tim,
Excellent write up and detailed pictures! I’m getting ready to do my clutch as well, and although I’ve changed a few clutches in my day, never on a BMW. I really appreciate that you took the time to let everyone know the finer details…or surely it would have been me posting the mistake. And I don’t even own a flame suit. I’d have been roasted alive.

Clearly by some of the quotes taken from this string, you’re highly regarded.

Thanks again for posting!!!
 
#14 ·
Good info Tim, thanks for sharing! This is good info we can add to our knowledge base, so we can at least learn from it. Glad it was something minor as we hoped.

By the time I need a new clutch, we'll be able to do it in no time flat!
 
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#19 ·
Good information to know for when it comes time to replace my clutch. Most of the flywheels I've installed only go on one way, usually because one or two holes are offset.
 
#23 · (Edited)
We all love to pick on Raza, but truly, he is a great friend. I can call him anytime, with any question, and he has the patience to deal with an A-hole like me. I was YELLING at him on the phone last night. He told me to shut up and listen. I don't have very many friends who can handle me I will admit, but he can. I see him having a bright future. Kid has the brains to do great things.

Thanks Raza, I owe you BIG TIME.
 
#24 ·
This is all true. I have seen him take so much chyt yet the dude just hangs in there. He is so smart its scary.
 
#26 · (Edited)
As another American who knew a thing or two about cars once said:

"The man who never made a mistake never made anything."

Whether this was an attempt to explainthe Edsel to the rest of the board is another matter entirely...

Tim, your behaviour in all this has been exemplary, as has that of your mates and the owner of the car. I've learned loads of interesting and potentially useful stuff, so nothing is wasted.

Thanks, and congratulations on getting it sorted in just 96 hours from the start.

YG
 
#27 · (Edited)
Tim: Ok now that we know it was the CPS in relation to the flywheel, one more question. In post #81 in the other thread you said it couldn't be the CPS because with it unplugged one car had fuel being sent and the other didn't. So is there a way to rectify that situation to the misaligned flywheel or were you somehow wrong about the fuel discrepency producing a red herring and reinforcing the concern about an electrical spike, etc?
 
#33 ·
With the CPS unplugged, my car was not getting fuel because the CPS was not reading ANYTHING. It was telling the ECU the flywheel/crank was not spinning, do not send fuel.

With Phil's car, the CPS WAS reading the flywheel/crank spinning and telling the ECU to go ahead and send fuel/spark, it was just in the completely wrong time. With the flywheel not lined up properly (about 40 degrees off), the ECU thought TDC was in a different position than it really was. The CPS was reading the opening in the "tombstones" at the wrong time. We didn't think it was getting spark because the engine wasn't firing. We could tell we had fuel (smell) but couldn't understand why it wasn't firing.
 
#29 ·
Timmay,

Thanks for posting this information. Regardless of the mistake, you have just added more valuable information to this board especially for true noobs like me!! :M5thumbs:
 
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#32 ·
Having made one or two (hundred) bonehead mistakes while working on my cars (I have an X5 in the garage that is slowing dripping antifreeze from the ONE o-ring I didn't replace when I replaced EVERYTHING ELSE in the damn cooling system last week...) I know that no one will beat you up over this harder than yourself.
Thanks for sharing - I now have this info filed away for for when I replace my clutch.
 
#34 ·
Tim -

Once I realized that the sound of your two start sequences were distinctly different, I knew it wasn't an EWS issue. No ignition would have sounded pretty similar, so the crank/cam timing made the most sense.

This is a mistake that you'll now never repeat. On the bright side, being off two holes possibly prevented serious engine damage if it were able to start one hole out of time.

This is how we learn. It happens to all of us. Chalk it up and move on. I'm glad it all worked out; and think of all the extra practice you got!

Larry
 
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