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Old 8th April 2002, 21:22   #1
SilverSBlack5
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"Copping an attidude"

Apparently standing up for yourself is equivalent to copping an attitude to my current service manager.... I guess I'm just feed up owning "Halo" cars. As nice as they are when they have issues they seem to take 10 times the effort to resolve that a "normal" car and the people you deal with don't seem to give any more of a flip about the car than a "normal car". All this for a hefty price premium. Let's start at the start:

Pre September 2001 my car is experiencing drivability issues bellow 2K rpms, stuttering power delivery and what sounds like ping or knock. I visit the dealership and the technician immediately confirms the behavior in a ride along. A day later they tell me there is a cat fault code, they reset the ECU and will try and drive another M5 to see if it behaves the same and will get back in touch with me.....

Over the next several months I am back and forth to this dealer for reprogramming the ECU, replacing O2 sensors and cats. I made at least seven separate trips for this issue. Only last Wed. did they finally resolve things to my satisfaction.

Elated to finally be rid of this issue and the incessant trips to the dealer to reprogram my ECU for the 3rd time etc., I was gassing her up for a pleasant drive Saturday and look down at my wheels to see what looks like terrible brake dust caking. I think to myself that its odd to see such dust since the dealer delayed me picking up the car so they could clean it for me. I bend down to rub off the dust and it does not rub off. On closer inspection I can see runs all in the silver where some chemical has stripped away the silver paint and exposed the black undercoat. This is on all four wheels.

I call the deal that moment and get the sole gentleman working the weekend. I informed him of my situation very politely. "Hey good news is my car is running great, bad news is the wheels have been damaged". I was at pains to be cool about this, no need to be hostile if everyone is looking out for their customer.

I am told to leave a message with the service advisor who will contact me and also given the name of the service manager for reference. I leave the same polite message with the advisor and await my call....

Monday 11:00 AM no call. This advisor has a history of being slow to get back to me and I am only getting his voice mail so I decide to call the manager. I didn't want a lot of time to elapse before the dealer took a look at the wheels.

I speak with the manager and apprise him of the situation and say that it appears a cleaner they have used to clean my wheels has damaged the paint. His first, number one response is not can I see the wheels or I'm sorry to hear that. It's "we don't use any chemicals to clean the wheels". So he has set up a precedent for being more interested in establishing/deflecting blame than taking care of his customer. I said ok sure you don't, when do you want to look at the wheels. We agree to meet around 1PM today.

Around 1PM the service manager comes out passes me in the waiting room. He looks at me from across the room and I wave back. He is then inundated with requests from his service department. Rather than walking over and looking impatient I stay seated and wait for him to get free and talk with me.

Ten minutes later I get up to see what's going on and he's out at my car with a technician. I think to myself that it would have been nice to be out there with them... I walk out and ask him if he can see what I'm talking about. I squat down and rub one of the affected areas. He say "Yeah, the thing is though I have another M5 doing this...". More pushback in my opinion. So I present him a thread by JCSav detailing his replacement of discolored rims under warranty. I then say even if he does have another M5 with this issue, it should be covered under warranty. He skims the 1st page of the post and starts with "I don't know...". More push back in my opinion.

At this point I realize I am going to be forceful in my insistence that this issue be addressed without delay. I said "You know your service department caused this issue, come on." I also said I knew all about the hoops JCSav went through with his rims because I've been through them over the eight months of trying to get my engine repaired.

He then says how do I know you didn't do this. I tell him because on Tuesday the wheels were fine, you had the car all day Wed, I parked in the garage Thur and Fri, and on Saturday I spotted the problem 3 min into my drive. I also stated that I did my research on the car and I knew better than to use anything other than a mild car soap on the wheels. He then said, see I can throw accusations around too. To this I said you could clearly see the runs in the finish where a chemical was applied, on all four wheels.

Then he says he was all ready to say "looks like I owe you four new rims" but I had to cop an attitude. I told him nothing in his communication with me lead me to think he was going to do that. In fact it made me think the opposite. He then said you won't be copping an attitude when dealing with me. I said I will "cop an attitude" any time his service department damages my car and then tries to push back on me.

He then says maybe he'll just tell me to take it back to the dealer I bought the car from. I told him I'd do that right after I called BMW service and told them how he refused to honor my warranty. He then said to be sure to tell them how rude I was. I told him I would and that I'd put it in the context of 8 months of continuous service for the same issue. The service manager then curtly says I'll order your new rims and huffs off.

Now what do you guys think, if he was going to just own up and replace the rims, why did we have to go through the initial exchange I'm not inside his head so I sure don't know. But what I am is outside listening to what he says. What he said lead me to think if I wasn't forceful this would at best turn into an ordeal like the engine work (that I pointed out I was very cool about, never demanded a loaner etc) and at worst a drain on my bank account. I never derided him personally or cursed. I might have copped an attitude, but at what point does one have to "cop an attitude" to save themselves tons of wasted time and effort to resolve these issues?
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Old 8th April 2002, 21:37   #2
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I know it's hard not to be pissed, but I really have gotten better results when holding back on my opinion of those sorry SOBs and just being polite but firm with my requests. Of course, I haven't had a problem that took longer than a month to resolve yet, so if I were in your shoes I might have already killed everyone in sight already

My wife has already sworn off ever taking her Z3 to the dealer again for anything, even minor warranty work and BMW-paid full maintenance.

I'll give them one more chance to get a service right: my Inspection I (II?) at 14000 or so miles
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Old 8th April 2002, 22:01   #3
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My approach - be insistent, but also be super-nice until it becomes clear that you are not going to get your way. If you must appear upset, look hurt and sad rather than angry and belligerent. If you convey with your tone and attitude that you are serious and persistent, but are going out of your way to be civil about it, you are offering the other party a chance to solve the problem before it becomes a fight, while still implicitly promising a fight if you don't get your way.

And ALWAYS (always always ALWAYS) offer the other party a way to give in and still save face. It's the best single rule of negotiation I know of. That's what I think you did wrong here - you charged in with an adversarial attitude and created a situation where the dealer had to lose face if you got your way. I agree that he was trying to push back, but you didn't help matters any.
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Old 8th April 2002, 22:13   #4
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Two good points guys, esp. dwasifar. I guess I let my disgust with the situation get out ahead of the best way to resolve it. My point in posting is to vent in a harmless environment and avoid another bad run in.

The only thing I'm left angry, disappointed, etc. with is the ownership experience of the car in general. As fine a piece of machinery as it is, it's still is a machine and machines break (to be expected). But somehow I though getting problems resolved with this car would be different. That by virtue of its prestige within the line up I would get to skip the run arounds and the push backs. I never expected to have to nagotiate and barter for reasonable treatment. I guess I just set myself up for disappointment. From now on I will approach this car with the same dispassionate resolve I have all my other cars

Last edited by SilverSBlack5; 8th April 2002 at 22:20.
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Old 8th April 2002, 22:21   #5
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Don't jeopardize your relationship with this service center over this. Afterall, he is getting you four new rims under warranty. I am sure you like this service center because of prompt service, history of work on your vehicle, or whatever else the reason may be. You have won this case but don't bust their balls anymore. In my opinion from here on be very polite. Once the rims get replaced , send the manager a thank you card and insist that you will grade them EXCELLENT on the service to BMWNA. Be the better man, and apologize for what he perceived as "rude tone" on your part (even though it was not your fault). Trust me, doing all of this will drastically improve any future service you may get at this Service Center. You will thank yourself for doing this, the next time something needs to be done with your vehicle
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Old 8th April 2002, 22:49   #6
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It's also possible that without your attidute towards him, he would have "dug in" further with his denial and you would be stuck paying 2K plus for new wheels.

I have found that service managers are this way all the time, and you have to be firm when necessary. But be nice to the service mechanics and parts people, they do the real work and appreciate a nice car and loving owner.
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Old 8th April 2002, 22:49   #7
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Rezf -

What you said - hear hear. It boils down to being a gracious winner, which is always a good policy if you want to play in the same sandbox next time.
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Old 9th April 2002, 00:39   #8
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Reza:

I know you mean well but I would be really mad if I found my wheels like that after service. You guys paid a lot for the Beast(around 80K when all done), you deserve good treatment. If there is a problem, it should be dealt with immediately and professionally. I know we do not hear the good stories as much as the bad ones concerning dealers but some of them are ruthless. First off, dealers are parts replacers not technicians. Real technicians are up in BMWNA HQ or running an independent garage for the most part. These people would actually look for the main problem instead of replacing an O2 sensor when a code pops up saying the O2 sensor is getting a strange reading. This is not just BMW, but all dealers in general. Cheaper for them to replace then to investigate and the technicians get paid by the car, not the outcome. So the more cars they can push out the better off they are.(I am almost postive on this but if I am wrong feel free to correct me). IMHO, a dealer must earn an excellent. It is not assumed.

SilverSBlack5:

See if you can go check out what they use on the wheels at the detailing department. They should know better then to use a chemical product on the painted wheels. I know that the dealers in this area use good products to clean cars such as P21S, Zymol, Klasse, etc. They know that saving a buck on a cleaning solution in not better worth costing them $ for 4 new wheels. Maybe they have a new guy in the detailing department. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you.
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Old 9th April 2002, 01:32   #9
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Again, thanks for the thoughts and reflections on this guys.

I certainly will not plan on busting anyone's balls over this going forward. I've got my wheels, that would just serve to build more animosity. I never intended to bust anyone's balls over this in the first place and don't feel like I did. What I did do was what dwasifar pointed out, I left them no way to save face and that was a mistake. I have no intention of calling BMW CS and complaining or the like. And when the BMW people call and ask me about my service visit, if I have my wheels or know they are in transit, I'll give them good marks.

My relationship going forward with this particular dealer is really up to them. I don't bear a grudge, but I get the feeling that the service manager might.
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