__________________ 2003 M5 "The Matte Black Money Pit"
ALPHA-N by EVOLVE,Power remapped-modified heads-Schrick cams-modified throttle bodies and velocity stacks-modified rods and crank-EVOLVE headers -Willans 4-point harness -CAI with custom built MAF delete tubes fed through fog light covers -lighter oem flywheel-Sachs performance clutch-clutch stop-Drexler differential stock ratio-electric fan with control unit-545i SSK-HEL braided teflon brake lines-IATS reloction-Bilstein PSS9-HD sway bar links-M3 swaybar brackets rear-CF bonnet with vents-subframe reinforcement-40mm wider fenders front and 25mm rear-aluminium ///M pedals and foot rest-CF roundels-LED AE-foglight delete-AP BBK kit 6piston calipers front-CF strut bar front-full suspension rebuild-camber plates with uniballs front-Dinan sway bar-illuminated inner door handles-Alcantara roof liner-M-Audio system- Hamann HM2 10x19" wheels 275/30 front and 295/30 rear
2002 M5 former known as "The Breaker"
Carbon black/black sport interior/titanium trim,37k miles,bone stock -20cm of the trunk and quarter panels missing...
-rebuild in winter 2011/2012
2001 530iA Touring/Orient blue/tan leather
-"submarine edition",a bit boost and some M5 parts...
2. Or we could keep our stock ones and be pleased that BMW made a car that is already stable at 170+ MPH.
Not trying to be a dick, I just question value vs effectiveness.
1. I like how you ignored the fact that ferrari's and lambo's use underpanels as well as every race ready car in recent history and chose to pick on "ricers." Anyone who knows anything about cars has respect for the RX7, it's a very elitest thing to say because your M5 has a BMW badge it's inherently better than someone elses car. The RX7 is one of a hand full of rotary engines ever made and when modded have more potential than our M5's and certainly on a smaller budget. If it's good enough to be on a ferrari or lambo, why isn't it good enough to be on my M5?
2. Have you been 170mph+ in your M5? Cause I have, and saying it's stable is absolutely wrong. Nothing is "stable" at 170mph+ unless it's a completely flat road with no imperfections and you are going in a straight line. Don't care what kind of car you are referring to either. I've gone past the speedo limit on my car (that's 185mph+) on one occasion and trust me when I say there is room for improvement.
If you bothered reading the discussion on the RX7 forum, there was a link to an engineering test done to see the pros and cons of the underpanels. With an incomplete, but flat underpanel they saw a 6.5% reduction in drag. (These are engineers with wind tunnels not RX7 owners, so you can trust them and to a lesser extent, trust their taste)
I'm willing to bet that my M5 is a great deal faster than yours and maybe we are on different levels mod wise where you can argue the cost of an underbody panel vs. the cost of an exhaust or intake and I can't. I already have all that stuff, there's nothing else for me to do without doing major modifications to the engine or getting something custom fabricated....OR...shed weight and improve the aerodynamics of the car. How I do so is up to me and hopefully if other members have reached a similar "mod limit" they would see it as a worth while investment as well.
Good God! Some of us have different uses and goals for our cars than others and, therefore, are going to be interested in different mods. I can't tell you how much I object to someone responding to a question about a mod with "why in the world would you want to do that? The M5 is not a race car!" Different strokes, folks. If you can't contribute any substantive assistance the OP, then just don't respond, and certainly keep flames to yourself. Thanks.
--Peter
To reiterate, Pedm5, I'm very interested in a a more aerodynamic underbody panel or panels, particularly in pre-preg carbon fiber.
__________________ The Beast
2001 E39 M5 LeMans Blue with Black/Blue Sport Interior and Titanium Trim with some great mods and a blown, balanced and blueprinted S62
1. I like how you ignored the fact that ferrari's and lambo's use underpanels as well as every race ready car in recent history and chose to pick on "ricers." Anyone who knows anything about cars has respect for the RX7, it's a very elitest thing to say because your M5 has a BMW badge it's inherently better than someone elses car. The RX7 is one of a hand full of rotary engines ever made and when modded have more potential than our M5's and certainly on a smaller budget. If it's good enough to be on a ferrari or lambo, why isn't it good enough to be on my M5?
I did not just choose to pick on ricers. You’re brought up the Rx-7 so I used them as my example. I am a Ex-Technician for Lotus. And trust me they know quite a bit about aerodynamics. I have installed countless amounts of splitters and spoilers on The Elise and Exiges, So I know quite a bit about cars. And I do have respect for the RX7. I never said one thing against them. I just think that thread is comparing apples to oranges; the rx-7 is in no way similar to our beast.
It’s defiantly good enough to be on the m5 but my issue is with Cost vs Effectiveness. Ferrari's can’t exactly be picked up for sub 25k (Except maybe a 308). I need a new under body tray and I wouldn’t that's what drew me to this thread. But I seriously doubt that it will be cost effective. If there were a underbody panel that was effective jump all over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedM5
2. Have you been 170mph+ in your M5? Cause I have, and saying it's stable is absolutely wrong. Nothing is "stable" at 170mph+ unless it's a completely flat road with no imperfections and you are going in a straight line. Don't care what kind of car you are referring to either. I've gone past the speedo limit on my car (that's 185mph+) on one occasion and trust me when I say there is room for improvement.
I have indeed done over 170. It was on a closed course and on a smooth surface and for those speeds I was more than impressed at the m5s ability to handle it. Look at all those videos on YouTube, Those guys are not freaking out about how unstable the car is and how it is about to lose control. I believe there is always room for improvement. But maybe time and money should be spent elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedM5
If you bothered reading the discussion on the RX7 forum, there was a link to an engineering test done to see the pros and cons of the underpanels. With an incomplete, but flat underpanel they saw a 6.5% reduction in drag. (These are engineers with wind tunnels not RX7 owners, so you can trust them and to a lesser extent, trust their taste)
Trust me, if there was a panel available for the m5 that had been tested, and proven in a wind tunnel and didn’t cost over 1k I would grab it up. But without these being tested and proven selling such a product would be difficult. And one offs would be so expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedM5
I'm willing to bet that my M5 is a great deal faster than yours and maybe we are on different levels mod wise where you can argue the cost of an underbody panel vs. the cost of an exhaust or intake and I can't. I already have all that stuff, there's nothing else for me to do without doing major modifications to the engine or getting something custom fabricated....OR...shed weight and improve the aerodynamics of the car. How I do so is up to me and hopefully if other members have reached a similar "mod limit" they would see it as a worthwhile investment as well. [IMG]file:///C:/Users/RYANRI%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
You know nothing of my M5, I have A1 headers, Full exhaust (Ex. Cats and Cans), Carbon fiber hood(which I actually removing), UUC v12 flywheel and clutch, Intake and custom dyno tune, I also have suspension and a few other goodies.
I am curious how much weight would be shed off of a panel that is plastic originally.
And ma ybe, just maybe, your car is perfect where it is. You don’t need to custom fabricate anything or do major modifications. I have reached the same mod limit. I would rather take that money and put it towards a ESS supercharger or even a nice coil over set up with camber plates and bushings. Which I plan to do next.
Before you go attacking my, I am willing to bet my 87 325is is faster than your m5 in every aspect, And it does not even have underbody trays. Anybody can make any car fast, that has been proven time and time again. Hell we even had a video where a guy got beat by a yugo.
I understand I have come off a little bit harsh in this post and I apologies. I really hope we can get a underbody or other mods that affect the car greatly in a positive notion. I just highly doubt it. I do understand we don’t see eye to eye on this matter and that’s what makes all our cars unique and great.
I did not just choose to pick on ricers. You’re brought up the Rx-7 so I used them as my example. I am a Ex-Technician for Lotus. And trust me they know quite a bit about aerodynamics. I have installed countless amounts of splitters and spoilers on The Elise and Exiges, So I know quite a bit about cars. And I do have respect for the RX7. I never said one thing against them. I just think that thread is comparing apples to oranges; the rx-7 is in no way similar to our beast.
It’s defiantly good enough to be on the m5 but my issue is with Cost vs Effectiveness. Ferrari's can’t exactly be picked up for sub 25k (Except maybe a 308). I need a new under body tray and I wouldn’t that's what drew me to this thread. But I seriously doubt that it will be cost effective. If there were a underbody panel that was effective jump all over it.
I have indeed done over 170. It was on a closed course and on a smooth surface and for those speeds I was more than impressed at the m5s ability to handle it. Look at all those videos on YouTube, Those guys are not freaking out about how unstable the car is and how it is about to lose control. I believe there is always room for improvement. But maybe time and money should be spent elsewhere.
Trust me, if there was a panel available for the m5 that had been tested, and proven in a wind tunnel and didn’t cost over 1k I would grab it up. But without these being tested and proven selling such a product would be difficult. And one offs would be so expensive.
You know nothing of my M5, I have A1 headers, Full exhaust (Ex. Cats and Cans), Carbon fiber hood(which I actually removing), UUC v12 flywheel and clutch, Intake and custom dyno tune, I also have suspension and a few other goodies.
I am curious how much weight would be shed off of a panel that is plastic originally.
And ma ybe, just maybe, your car is perfect where it is. You don’t need to custom fabricate anything or do major modifications. I have reached the same mod limit. I would rather take that money and put it towards a ESS supercharger or even a nice coil over set up with camber plates and bushings. Which I plan to do next.
Before you go attacking my, I am willing to bet my 87 325is is faster than your m5 in every aspect, And it does not even have underbody trays. Anybody can make any car fast, that has been proven time and time again. Hell we even had a video where a guy got beat by a yugo.
I understand I have come off a little bit harsh in this post and I apologies. I really hope we can get a underbody or other mods that affect the car greatly in a positive notion. I just highly doubt it. I do understand we don’t see eye to eye on this matter and that’s what makes all our cars unique and great.
What's funny to me is the final edition Lotus Esprit (which I have) has a front splitter that comes considerably lower to the ground than previous models and the high speed stability was greatly improved by it. Reducing the amount of air going under the car reduces lift which helps use that energy for acceleration. You being a former lotus tech I'd assume you would be on board for aerodynamic improvements as lotus is pretty much at the forefront of the minimilistic engineering efficiency approach. They accomplish a lot with a little by making components lighter and more aerodynamic.
What cracks me up further is, you are reaping the benefit of me previously getting something fabricated to help out the board community. A1 headers were my idea, I was the guinea pig, I found the shop and had them made and I told the board about it so whoever wants to have an alternative to supersprint and dinan would have one. Now I'm basically doing the same thing and you object profusely.
No offense intended or taken, but I have a few more ideas on improving my already amazing performance machine and I hope to be able to offer the same benefit from my quests to my board brothers. I'd certainly welcome some help if anyone wants to look into the underpanel trays with me as I'm currently out of the country.
What's funny to me is the final edition Lotus Esprit (which I have) has a front splitter that comes considerably lower to the ground than previous models and the high speed stability was greatly improved by it. Reducing the amount of air going under the car reduces lift which helps use that energy for acceleration. You being a former lotus tech I'd assume you would be on board for aerodynamic improvements as lotus is pretty much at the forefront of the minimilistic engineering efficiency approach. They accomplish a lot with a little by making components lighter and more aerodynamic.
Lotus Engineering is amazing. I love lotus, end of discussion, there is not a better drivers cars. I hope we can agree on at least that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedM5
What cracks me up further is, you are reaping the benefit of me previously getting something fabricated to help out the board community. A1 headers were my idea, I was the guinea pig, I found the shop and had them made and I told the board about it so whoever wants to have an alternative to supersprint and dinan would have one. Now I'm basically doing the same thing and you object profusely.
Im glad you did this. I truly hope you can get the same deal with the Underbody trays. If you can you will see me buying them. I do not object profusely, i simply am concerned about cost vs effectiveness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedM5
No offense intended or taken, but I have a few more ideas on improving my already amazing performance machine and I hope to be able to offer the same benefit from my quests to my board brothers. I'd certainly welcome some help if anyone wants to look into the underpanel trays with me as I'm currently out of the country.
I truly look forward to seeing them as you have helped produce some amazing products.
Peter,I think you got me bit wrong in my post
Seriously,the M5 will never be a real race car,compared to any GT1 or GT2 or even GT3 car on the planet(if it is a Porker,Ferrari,Lambo,...)
I mod also my beast like hell (work at the moment on bigger TBs,highflow MAFs,manifolds...and go S/C anyway,already have a sleeved block and balanced crank for that project)and I drive it often to the full 308km/h top speed.Have no problems to keep it on the road and make it drive where I want it to drive...
The closed undertray with diffusor just needs much more other devices to be efficient(like a real front splitter,not the optics stuff you can buy),also we have to talk then about a rear wing!
It is the whole package that needs to work together to get these mod efficient!
And still completely useless without a wind tunnel.
Everything else is guessing and might even get aerodynamics worse(see Le Mans disaster with the flying Mercedes GTR and Porsche GT1)...
And about the link to Lambo and Ferrari and their underbody panels,these cars are designed as sports cars and not as sporty 4 door saloons...
I just give my thoughts about the aerodynamic discussion...
And M5 London can tell you that I know a bit about that,I think
To get a M5 better handling at high speeds,the first steps are a real good coilover and setup,change every bushing to urethane and all other linkages and joints to uniballs,also a set of semis.Will get uncomfortable ride,but sticks to the tarmac like hell!
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