My real estate agent and her husband were hit head on yesterday by a Chevy Cavelier or Corsica. They were in their 5 series, both survived. She needed surgery but is doing fine, he has a concusion and will probably go home tomorrow. The Chevy driver and passenger both dead at the scene! Once again, BMW does its job.
yep, 2000 pounds weight advantage makes all the difference in the world. it has very little to do with the fact thet they were in their 5 series- trust me.
i've seen people in a 5 series very very dead after a collision with a chevy tahoe.
people die in all kind of cars. that is the truth. no one is invinsible unleast you drive a hummer.
what i am trying to say is that this particular accident was not a good example as of the 5 series safety...
weight is everything when there is no rollover. the people that walk are the one in the heavier vehicle. always. very few exceptions. i am sorry to say that i've done some serious reading on the subject and the only thing that consistently helps in a accident statistically speaking is weight.
a rollover is not a good example. an suv doesnt have good protection above the wheels because it doesnt have to... think of it
however, all else equal, i agree that i would prefer to be in a 5 series bmw than in a buick lesabre for example... otherwise my bet goes to the tahoe
I couldn't DISAGREE with you more. All things being equal, weight does give you an advantage in a collision, but you don't seem to be taking into account crumple zone designs, safety cage designs, door anchoring, etc.
Because people subscribe to the simple philosophy of more weight=safer like you are advocating, that's why we see so many F**KING SUVs on the road! I say it's total bullshit.
I have seen many a Suburban or Yukon in major collisions around here, and they are not pretty. The passengers do not always walk away unscathed. There was this one time on the 101 that a Suburban rear ended a Volvo station wagon, and the drivers in the Suburban were injured, as well as their front end all mangled.
The flaw in your theory is that it does not take many variables into account. For instance, you're telling me that Formula One cars aren't safe because they weigh in at less than a ton? Remember, lightweight materials make all the difference, after all, carbon fiber is stronger than steel, pound for pound. I bet you a guy with a fully rollcaged 911 turbo has a much better chance at surviving against an american SUV. Why? Because the chassis is so rigid that it wouldn't allow the cabin to collapse inward.
Let's face it, the day that GM makes the safest cars on the road will be a cold day in hell!
Remember those old beaters from the 60s and 70s, like the brady bunch wagon that weighed a good 2 or 2.5 tons, you call those SAFE?
I can guarantee you that I have as good a shot as anybody against a Yukon in my 740i. It weighs in at over 4200 lbs., and despite a 1500 lb. or so weight disadvantage against a Yukon XL, I would still bet on the BMW. The M5 has a similar curb weight, and remember the IIHS has ranked the 5-series the safest car your can buy. There are many variables in an accident, who knows why the 5 series owners that you observed had died against a Yukon... but I'm sure there have been many SUV passengers dead in accidents as well.
If you ask me what I think the safest car in the world is, I'd still have to say a Mercedes S600, especially the ones from 92-99, they were built like tanks! But our Bimmers are probably right up there!
And I know this sounds terrible, but I kinda snicker every time I see a rolled SUV-- stupid asses who try to drive the SUV as if it's a Porsche or something!
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The big thing that people are assuming here is that it is a head on collision.(for the argument) In a head on collision, the weight does play a big role in who gets killed... but it is not everything.
However, in a side impact, and a vehicle vs solid object collision, it comes down to the car.
If a car hits a cement wall, the force that the car feels is equal to it's own weight. So it is like a head on collision with an identical car.
In a Suburbon vs Suburban collision and a 540 vs 540 collision, I think I would go fot the 540s
but I think this subject title should be 'Once again Chevy kills somone'
The analogy to a Formula1 car is inherently flawed. Mass DOES help you TREMENDOUSLY, but only when there's something to absorb it, i.e. another car. Safety equipment equal, i'd rather hit a wall in a 2000lbs car than in a 4000lbs car - the total amount of energy in the collosion will be much lesser. Same goes for trees, lighting poles etc. In rollovers, apart from the flawed design of most SUVs, their mass makes it very difficult for the body bracings to keep them in one piece, they just collapse with the entire passanger compartment. A Forumla1 has an extremely stiff and light structure which helps it when self-colliding in a stationary, non-absorbptive object - I wouldn't want to be in one when colliding with an SUV.
When colliding frontal, however, mass does play a huge role. the bigger, the better (for you). Add to that the old chassis design of most SUVs (ladder-type frame, much more rigid, no abosrbption whatsoever) and you'll get a deadly vehicle, in head-on with other cars (for the other car's occupants) as well as self collosions - walls/trees, as mentioned above (this time, for the SUVs occupants). In most cases, a regular passanger car will just get stuck UNDER the SUV, which would render alot of it safety design useless.
IMHO, SUVs should have been heavily taxed or at least throughly tested for safety, not for self but for other users of the road - anyone can drive whatever he likes, even a Caterahem 7, as long as he only puts himself in danger. a dangerous SUV, with no consideration to the safety of fellow road users, should have been banned by the DMV.
The basic flawed design of the SUV, along with its weight and awful road manners render it a danger to the surroundings.
A 911 with a rollcage might very well protect it's inhabitants from being smashed in an accident with an SUV, but the amount of energy applied to them (mass of SUV + sudden negative acceleration applied to them by the inability of the rollcage to absorb any energy, unlike a passanger car crumple zone) will probably cause fatal internal injuries. You don't have to be actually hit by something to die, several hunderds G's of acceleration would do.
Just for your interest, i remember the 3/5 series not being so safe as one would expect, by judging EuroNCAP results. Some much cheaper cars have acquired better results (especially in the case of the 3 series). However, it's a different test than the ones in the US, and it's known that some cars are optimized for one of them instead of the other.
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The build quality of the car has a lot to do with it. I hit a tree in my M3, very hard. All that was left of the side of the car was the beams that form the cage. There was no intrusion, and no glass broke. My girlfriend and I walked away without a scratch. Any other sports car, we would have been seriously injured. I vowed on that day never to drive another brand of car. I just hope I can afford to keep up that pledge.
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