Ongoing Nowack Nightmare - Update - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

CharlesW · 3rd March 2002, 21:37

Hi there, I'm really sorry that I've disappeared off the planet for a while, but I kind of haven?t left my office for much of the past 3-4 weeks. Three of us are trying to do four people?s jobs ??etc. etc. In particular I?m sorry to John H and the other M5ers in the UK that I did not turn up to the meet on 23rd February. The reason for my absence was that my car is STILL off the road??.

Here?s the latest update

You remember that the current problem is two oil leaks in the engine when I got it back from Nowack ? spotted by my local BMW dealer when I took my car in the get a number of software glitches put in by Nowack removed. Well the first leak was a hose connecting the block to the radiator and that got fixed pretty easily. The second only became apparent when the engine was steam cleaned after the first leak was fixed. This looks to be a gasket problem and so they have to strip the engine down to the cylinder heads. This is taking time because the tech guy at my dealer is going slowly to learn what Nowack did (to make sure that he/they can put it back together again). Anyway, my dealer called me to say they worked out all the stuff that Nowack have down with the Vanos and the cams and they've stripped it down -- I think that they've actually got down to the cylinder heads now. They called on Friday to let me know what they've found. I missed the call and will find out tomorrow.

Anyway, that?s the car ? it?s a story of long, painful progress, but I think I?ll get it back in some shape or form in a week or two. When I posted last, I described how Nowack had called me and asked the board?s advice. The overwhelming view was that I should call Nowack back and explain my problems, and so I did. The BMW tech. at my local dealer also called them too???..

My conversation was very unsatisfactory. I spoke to the marketing guy and outlined my thoughts about the low quality of finish and workmanship, the oil leaks, my overall unhappiness, etc. etc. His overall attitude was not one of concern or "right, we'll fix it now" or worry that his company's work was just so poor. He focussed on the oil leaks and basically tried to suggest that these weren't such a big deal and that I should bring the car back to Germany and they'd fix it. Somehow I felt as though he was suggesting that it was in some way my fault. He just didn?t react to my other criticisms and just didn't seem very bothered by my bad experiences -- I mean: a heat shield held back off the block by what looks like fishing wire, and he just didn?t have anything to say! I put the phone down convinced that I would never speak to them again and I most certainly was never taking my car back there.

This attitude was confirmed when my tech (a qualified BMW Master Technician -- there's only 25-30 in the UK, for example) spoke to Oliver Nowack. Nowack's attitude was that under no circumstances should my guy try to fix the car of the engine. He claimed that the modifications were so large that BMW just wouldn?t have the kit to repair it. He said that my tech should tell me to take my car back to Nowack ASAP. Interestingly, however, much of what he told my tech was just plain wrong. He started talking about knocking sensors in individual cylinders, but in fact there are four sensors in the engine and so each one services a pair of cylinders. Various other things he was talking about were equally inaccurate -- it showed a surface knowledge but not a real knowledge of the fine details of the car. My tech said he just let Oliver talk, but that much of what he was saying was trying the blind my guy with science -- kind of a stupid thing to do to a BMW tech, but anyway, it shows the arrogance of the guy.

So, my tech and myself thought we'd just ignore the windbag and he'd go ahead and strip the engine. Interestingly we found that very few things have been changed and so far nothing that major that my tech couldn?t deal with. In particular, my tech found that the car still had standard cams in -- they had the BMW logo and parts number stamped in them !! So, the claim of "worked cams" by Nowack is looking to be as false and hollow as so much else with this company. Increasingly in my car it looks that all they did was improve the airflow and change the programming in the ECU (and muck (there is an ?m? there) everything else up on the way !!). I really should sue them, but it'll be just too expensive and time consuming.
So that's my story so far. Still no car and its getting on for 6 months since I delivered it to Nowack. Nowack called me every now and then, but since I don?t return their calls they've given up. I'm just not interested in hearing more lies and they just don't seem concerned -- sure they say bring the car back to Germany and we'll fix it for free, but the implications about quality of work, reputation, customer service after $50,000 of cash, etc. just doesn't seem to be very important to them.

As a quick aside, I really hope I?m not banned from this site for saying this, but Gustav ? why are you defending Nowack all the time? Given my experiences and those of Apples, we have two of us that have enough evidence to suggest that in fact these guys have actually set out to rip us off. I won?t speak for Apples, but let?s consider my experiences

· 3 months to do the conversion
· electrical faults left in the dashboard when car returned to me
· engine undertray reattached with cheap plastic rivets, not proper clips
· two major oil leaks in the engine when it is returned ? previously no oil problems for 2+ years before conversion
· heat shield held of block by what looks like fishing wire
· cams in engine discovered to be standard BMW, not uprated
· a lack of interest in my problems, other than suggestion of returning car to Germany

What other evidence do I need to show that Oliver Nowack is not a maligned enthusiast but someone whose business should be shut down as quickly as possible. My recommendation to everyone on this board: Do not use Nowack, EVER

As a side issue, I?ve been reading about Apples? problem of a lack of BHP. Given that I?ve only had my car on the road for 3+ weeks since I got it back from Nowack, I have never had any time to take it to a dyno. When I was at Nowack they put it on the dyno in front of me and dialled up 452 BHP on the road, but given that they seem to have lied to me so much, quite frankly it could be that they have a standard computer readout that they show to punters when they're at the dyno that shows 452 BHP ? at that time (before driving it) I'd never know whether it really had 452, 400 or 350 BHP otr. That said, even Nowack have told me that 75% of the power hike they get is from the changed programming -- all that mechanical work (or lack of it) only increases power by 25-30 BHP (they told me). If Apples isn?t getting the power uplift, I suspect it's because the ECU they sent to him is in fact standard. The stock M5 delivers c350 BHP on the road, so with the mechanical changes (mainly air flow improvements), adding say 30 BHP, we get to 380 BHP on the road. His 384 BHP sounds like a stock ECU on a modified engine.

Charles

steve adams · 3rd March 2002, 22:39

Thank you for posting this info. Perspectives like this are very valuable to everyone who participates in this board.

There was a BMW Motorsports engineer at the driving experience dinner this weekend in Spartanburg ... he had been with BMW for 16 years and was not familiar with Nowack's tuning business. He mentioned Dinan, so BMW seems to really limit their recognition of third party tuners.

petesamprs · 3rd March 2002, 22:42

thanks charles. valuable information to know, but sorry about your experience. It disappoints and angers me to hear this, so I can't imagine how you feel.

Jim Dolan · 3rd March 2002, 23:06

Wow, what a nightmare... Sorry to hear of your troubles Charles. Yours along with Apples should tell most of us that modifying cars can be a problem unless the mods are conservative like Dinan and recognized by BMW.

The cost, effect on warranty, risk of getting the job done right, true gain in performance, potential for fraud, effect on the value of the car and competence of the people doing the work ought to send a signal to all. That this whole deal of modifying a car is not easy, cheap or even sensible unless you know of the reputation and skill of the people doing the work. And referrals should be car specific. Just because he did a great job on a Mustang for example doesn't mean he can do an M5.

Like you Charles, I don't believe the claims of Nowack as to BHP. Really sorry to see you go through this and hope we're wrong and all gets worked out.

Good luck.

JohnH · 3rd March 2002, 23:20

Charles, So sorry to hear that your troubles are still continuing and that Nowack have been less than helpful which I am sure they will regret in the long run. Don't worry about not coming to the meet aolthough we would all have loved seeing and hearing your car. We will be having another meet in June so hopefully all the problems will be behind you by then. The one good thing in all this is that it seems like you have a very good BMW technician at your dealer. Hope you are back on the road asap and keep us updated on progress.

Rezf · 4th March 2002, 01:35

I'm really sorry!! This all is very troubling to hear

RezF

Gustav · 4th March 2002, 01:59

CharlesW, first thanks for taking your time to post your continuous experiences with Nowack.

Your quote below I agree 100% with, I also suspect that Apples ECU is wrong, he have to get the appropiat individually tuned by Nowack for his engine. This is in line with what Nowack have stated both to me in person and other N500 owners.

Quote:

Originally posted by CharlesW

That said, even Nowack have told me that 75% of the power hike they get is from the changed programming -- all that mechanical work (or lack of it) only increases power by 25-30 BHP (they told me). If Apples isn?t getting the power uplift, I suspect it's because the ECU they sent to him is in fact standard. The stock M5 delivers c350 BHP on the road, so with the mechanical changes (mainly air flow improvements), adding say 30 BHP, we get to 380 BHP on the road. His 384 BHP sounds like a stock ECU on a modified engine.

Charles

No, why would I ban you? I agree with you than Nowack have treated you very bad and that is totally wrong. It's their issue.

I just say what I have experienced myself, currently with two different N500.

First one:

http://www.bmwm5.com/articles/germany/tysk2.htm

This report seriosly pissed Nowack off when I visited them the other time. I simply wrote down my inpressions of the car.

Second time I went with Dragos car (dr N500) on the board and Johan, me, Dragos and Onkel Tom (Owner of 2001 M5 on the board) CLEARLY noted that the N500 was much faster. I have writtten about that before. Also not running rich etc. (see my previous posts). That is what I have experienced. Period.

I am not defending anyone, just telling what I think and have experienced.

I just think it's highly unlikely that a tuner would rip clients of like that, maybe I beleive in honesty too much!

Regarding the cams, you write yourself that the cams were "worked". So I assume they work on the original BMW cams and that work aren't visible without measuring them is my assumption. I do not think they switched cams. Just reworked the current ones.

Quote:

Originally posted by CharlesW

As a quick aside, I really hope I?m not banned from this site for saying this, but Gustav ? why are you defending Nowack all the time? Given my experiences and those of Apples, we have two of us that have enough evidence to suggest that in fact these guys have actually set out to rip us off. I won?t speak for Apples, but let?s consider my experiences

· 3 months to do the conversion
· electrical faults left in the dashboard when car returned to me
· engine undertray reattached with cheap plastic rivets, not proper clips
· two major oil leaks in the engine when it is returned ? previously no oil problems for 2+ years before conversion
· heat shield held of block by what looks like fishing wire
· cams in engine discovered to be standard BMW, not uprated
· a lack of interest in my problems, other than suggestion of returning car to Germany

What other evidence do I need to show that Oliver Nowack is not a maligned enthusiast but someone whose business should be shut down as quickly as possible. My recommendation to everyone on this board: Do not use Nowack, EVER

Charles

Also I think you should give Nowack chance to fix the situation. How can you expect them to fix it if you never want to hear from them again?

But bottom line is that I really feel sorry for your Nowack experience and I hope everything settles. I will follow the upcoming story with great interest in the future here.

Bart Carter · 4th March 2002, 06:15

Quote:

still had standard cams in -- they had the BMW logo and parts number stamped in them !! So, the claim of "worked cams" by Nowack is looking to be as false and hollow as so much else with this company.

Regrinding stock cams has long been a practice by many Cam manufacturers. You need to measure the lift, timing and duration to find out if they were indeed "worked cams".

Quote:

Nowack called me every now and then, but since I don?t return their calls they've given up. I'm just not interested in hearing more lies and they just don't seem concerned -- sure they say bring the car back to Germany and we'll fix it for free, but the implications about quality of work, reputation, customer service after $50,000 of cash, etc. just doesn't seem to be very important to them.

At least they are calling. If it were me, I would be on the phone to Nowack every day. I can understand you not wanting to deal with them any more. But I would be calling Nowack and demanding they truck your car as is back to their place and fixing it right. And not keeping it for any length of time. Their reputation is on the line. A good job can get you one or two more sales. A bad job can lose you a dozen sales.

Quote:

As a quick aside, I really hope I?m not banned from this site for saying this

I think this site (kudos to Gustav and the moderators) is one place that a person doesn't have to be afraid to voice his opinion.

Quote:

even Nowack have told me that 75% of the power hike they get is from the changed programming -- all that mechanical work (or lack of it) only increases power by 25-30 BHP (they told me).

If this was true, they would be selling 75 HP software upgrades for $5,000+ and would be laughing all the way to the bank. If this is what they are telling people, they probably are what people have been calling them.

tfung · 4th March 2002, 06:53

I agree with both Gustav and Bart here.. you should definitely give them a chance to help you resolve your problems... I know it'll be time consuming and might cost even more money, but it's worth a try... also, there are many BMW tuners that basically use original BMW parts and change it a bit to become their own parts.. items like cams, mufflers, intakes, etc can all have this done.... so unless you really compare the two side by side, it's hard to tell...