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Old 14th September 2009, 16:58   #121
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Any news on a possible LHD version?
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Old 14th September 2009, 18:52   #122
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Sexy? Yes sir.
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Old 14th September 2009, 21:20   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rassi View Post
Any news on a possible LHD version?
Answering my question from earlier in the thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 London View Post
Yeah sure !

Its funny how many So Cal guys have shown interest in these, I think about 6 so far.

In fact I have noted interest from every single continent in the world except Antarctica . (Must be the strict noise regulations )

These chaps are very big into the "Under promise, Over deliver" theory and so I really can't wait for the finished product
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Old 14th September 2009, 21:34   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rassi View Post
Any news on a possible LHD version?
Hi Anders,

The LHD car has already been measured up.

I will get an update on where they are at with it.

They are well aware of the level of interest from LHD owners.

Thanks

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Old 16th September 2009, 18:16   #125
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A few questions for Kumaran:

1. If you're going to dyno these against the stock system, its going to be a little pointless unless you compare against a new (or very nearly new) oem system. I don't think a ~100k mile system would be a remotely fair 'baseline'. I suspect anyone who's cut apart an old exhaust would agree.

2. Do you have any pictures of the bare LHD or RHD manifolds?
I don't know whether the picture above is RHD or LHD, or if there are further differences between LHD-EU and LHD-US.
Are they different beyond routing to neotiate steeering column etc.

3. I recall seeing a picture (which I can't find) of the entry to a US (I think) header showing the internal wall (they're double walled, right) having two 'ears' where they're flared inwards right at the exhaust port.
I'd be very interested to know what your exhaust man believes the purpose of:
a) dual-walls
b) the 'ears'

4. I've never read (besides magazine advertorials) any convincing reasons why ceramic coating (or wrapping the exhaust) is a good idea. Even on 'cost-no-object' supercars* this is not done (AFAIK), so forgive my cynicism.

Looks great anyhow,

Tom

*let's restrict this to n/a supercars from pucka manufacturers here - rather than 'exotic kit-cars'...
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:34   #126
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I will try to help Kumaran on these: Picture is of LHD car. I dont think there is other difference than noise amount coming from exhaust headers if we talk about single or double walls. Wrapping reduces underhood temperatures thereby you didnt lose power.
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:52   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas.hood View Post
A few questions for Kumaran:

1. If you're going to dyno these against the stock system, its going to be a little pointless unless you compare against a new (or very nearly new) oem system. I don't think a ~100k mile system would be a remotely fair 'baseline'. I suspect anyone who's cut apart an old exhaust would agree.

2. Do you have any pictures of the bare LHD or RHD manifolds?
I don't know whether the picture above is RHD or LHD, or if there are further differences between LHD-EU and LHD-US.
Are they different beyond routing to neotiate steeering column etc.

3. I recall seeing a picture (which I can't find) of the entry to a US (I think) header showing the internal wall (they're double walled, right) having two 'ears' where they're flared inwards right at the exhaust port.
I'd be very interested to know what your exhaust man believes the purpose of:
a) dual-walls
b) the 'ears'

4. I've never read (besides magazine advertorials) any convincing reasons why ceramic coating (or wrapping the exhaust) is a good idea. Even on 'cost-no-object' supercars* this is not done (AFAIK), so forgive my cynicism.

Looks great anyhow,

Tom

*let's restrict this to n/a supercars from pucka manufacturers here - rather than 'exotic kit-cars'...

Tom,

I will get my exhaust guy to answer your questions but I reckon Neighbour has pretty much covered it !

With regards to 1) What are you suggesting ? That new/newly new stock manifolds will flow better than 100K mile stock ones, and therefore using 100K miles ones as a baseline, would not truly reflect gains produced by the performance headers ? I mean do you think stock headers are getting clogged up as mileage is put on and so 100K miles are actually more clogged up than new ones ?

Cheers

Kumaran
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Old 16th September 2009, 19:13   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 London View Post
Tom,

I will get my exhaust guy to answer your questions but I reckon Neighbour has pretty much covered it !

With regards to 1) What are you suggesting ? That new/newly new stock manifolds will flow better than 100K mile stock ones, and therefore using 100K miles ones as a baseline, would not truly reflect gains produced by the performance headers ? I mean do you think stock headers are getting clogged up as mileage is put on and so 100K miles are actually more clogged up than new ones ?

Cheers

Kumaran
No, I'm not suggesting manifolds degrade, but from the early part of this thread I understood that a system was being developed in parallel.

Last edited by thomas.hood; 16th September 2009 at 19:15.
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Old 16th September 2009, 19:38   #129
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[quote=thomas.hood;1643883]A few questions for Kumaran:

4. I've never read (besides magazine advertorials) any convincing reasons why ceramic coating (or wrapping the exhaust) is a good idea. Even on 'cost-no-object' supercars* this is not done (AFAIK), so forgive my cynicism.

quote]

wrapping and coating:

The idea comes from the knowledge that hotter gasses are less dense. Hot internal temps into a cold manifold will cause the gases to contract and become more dense. With this increase in density, and the same presure behind it, It will have to exit slower.

Now to understand a little more, remember 2 stroke engine have an expansion chanber to carry exhaust gasses away. they make the gas move faster by reducing density in a different way, IE: expanding volume.

But as you note, on a 2 stoke, the expansion chamber is not a wide cone to the atmosphere. That means that this is a balance between exhaust velosity and backpressure in order to tune your power curve.

So on a 4 stroke engine with SS or iron headers ( no not wrap TI) , you can wrap them to change the internal speed of the exhaust in the headers by preventing the increase in density slightly. And thus getting more power on the top end. It also prevents heat soak on the intake side, but thats more of an added benifit, and not the reasson for doing it usually.

Without a dyno, Its very hard to get it right, so its best to let the deep pockets play with the wrap untill they find out what works, because going into it blindly is not always going to yield power gains.

FWIW- wrapping stock headers on most stock bikes would get 2-3 hp on the top end. WE always went with full Ti exhaust on my race bikes, so I've never wrapped mine, only friends and bikes I built for people.
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Last edited by MrCrashRR; 16th September 2009 at 19:44. Reason: clarity
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Old 17th September 2009, 18:06   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 London View Post
Tom,

I will get my exhaust guy to answer your questions but I reckon Neighbour has pretty much covered it !

With regards to 1) What are you suggesting ? That new/newly new stock manifolds will flow better than 100K mile stock ones, and therefore using 100K miles ones as a baseline, would not truly reflect gains produced by the performance headers ? I mean do you think stock headers are getting clogged up as mileage is put on and so 100K miles are actually more clogged up than new ones ?

Cheers

Kumaran
FYI these are the 'ears' I was referrring to.




and here's a decent picture of the stock manifolds


Both pics from here:

I wonder if the design difference (long primaries vs. short primaries) is deliberate. Maybe it's to even out the torque curve. Another question for your exhaust man perhaps? After all, they're on seperate closed-loop lambda circuits.

Bolt-On Power for the BMW E39 M5 - Tech Review - European Car Magazine

Regards,

Tom
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