so with my current block toast my plan is to pickup another block and build it up from scratch.
i know the D/A cars are running darton sleeves(who i will call monday) and ONNO is running sleeves as well, as protection against future damage, so i want to go that route as well. will i have any issues getting a used block and then having it sleeved? i dont see the problem with that but i want to get some input on this before i start giving out the CC number because a used block is 1200 compared to new one which is 5500.
from what i understand, the sleeve process would bore the block, then have sleeves put in, correct?
with that said would this require me to run bigger pistons? the pistons are going to be replaced anyway so i suppose it would make sense having oversized pistons. i know CP pistons is what everyones running, but what size and how much are they oversized?
As far as rods i believe arrow precision is the go to place concerning that as well, which is more then likely the rods i will be using.
which brings me to the most important question, the crank bearing. do i HAVE to get a new crank bearing? or will having it rebalanced with new shells be enough? i know my crank bearing isnt damaged but i will have 2 bearings during this ordeal and id rather not order a new bearing making it 3 bearings.
im pretty much thinking out loud right now, this board is a wealth of knowledge and i refuse taking my car to a shop and letting someone else wrench on it, unless i absolutely have to. so any input on what setup to go with would be appreciated.
the end result i want to end up with is a bulletproof motor with an ESS supercharger slapped on there.
-R
ps-i know my info is somewhat vague, but im trying to get the fundementals down of what i want to do before i get into extreme details.
Am sorry to ear that your block is damage. I had this kind a problem like that with mine but that was not a cracked sleeve. the pistons was gripped and also the block was big deep scoring in. My solution been the Nikasil, lot of people was disagree about that but now the car run great and there is not oil consummation anymore. About the Pistons, I use CP which is distribute from VAC motor sport. You can get a nice variety of compression ratio as well different size of bore. For myself I re-install pistons with the same bore and the same compression ratio. About the crank, I will suggest you to install all brand new BMW bearing on the main and also on the rods. About the sleeve, if you want to run turbo or SC may be that is an option but I use to work with darton sleeve on some honda turbo engine and I had many problem with head gasket blown after and that is not funny. About the rods, if am not wrong the factory rod are already forged so I don't see the point that you have to change, even if you run turbo or SC. This is my personnal suggestion, you can also check, in the link below, there is a lot of infos that I put during my re-build. I hope these infos will help you.
Am sorry to ear that your block is damage. I had this kind a problem like that with mine but that was not a cracked sleeve. the pistons was gripped and also the block was big deep scoring in. My solution been the Nikasil, lot of people was disagree about that but now the car run great and there is not oil consummation anymore. About the Pistons, I use CP which is distribute from VAC motor sport. You can get a nice variety of compression ratio as well different size of bore. For myself I re-install pistons with the same bore and the same compression ratio. About the crank, I will suggest you to install all brand new BMW bearing on the main and also on the rods. About the sleeve, if you want to run turbo or SC may be that is an option but I use to work with darton sleeve on some honda turbo engine and I had many problem with head gasket blown after and that is not funny. About the rods, if am not wrong the factory rod are already forged so I don't see the point that you have to change, even if you run turbo or SC. This is my personnal suggestion, you can also check, in the link below, there is a lot of infos that I put during my re-build. I hope these infos will help you.
i read your entire thread, very impressive to say the least.
so you ran the CP pistons from VAC with stock rods keeping everything OEM spec, makes sense since you were trying to get your motor running.
im thinking about going the same route as you and keeping the compression the same, or maybe decreasing it due to the sleeving. im building the motor with the intention of having it blown so increasing compression isnt what i need. ive already established the block is first thing to go when compression shoots up, so decreasing it and adding sleeves may be my best route.
i need to run this over with ESS tomorrow to see what compression i should run with the blower so i can crank up the boost.
I don't really feel confident to run these block with SC application, the distance between the both cyninder is just 4mm, it's pretty short. Yes the CP pistons are match the OEM rod which is for me really good and strong. If you need any question, I can answer to you with no problem.
I don't really feel confident to run these block with SC application, the distance between the both cyninder is just 4mm, it's pretty short. Yes the CP pistons are match the OEM rod which is for me really good and strong. If you need any question, I can answer to you with no problem.
Sonny
thats why i plan on running sleeves and decreasing the bore, that way i have sleeves in there for added protection, and decreased bore which may be better for a SC setup.
I don't know about the S62...mostly b/c I cannot justify nor spend the kind of money it would take for that kind of set-up, so I will live vicariously through you!!!
However, make sure when you find a shop for the machining work...have them do the measuring and ordering for pistons. Last turbo I built, I went off what someone said the measurments should be...the machine shop refused to installed them because they were NOT correct. There is some small variance from block to block, so get the size specific to your block...not a generic "should be" measurement.
Also...if you are worried about the S62 motor cylinder walls being too thin...which it seems is getting more prevalent in high HP n/a set-ups. Alpina uses the 4.4 m62 block with their B7 even though the 4.8 of the same era yielded more power in N/A. I know it's weird to think on notting using an S62 in the m5, but it might not be the best block. Reminds me of Ford going back to iron block for the 03-04 cobra's instead of using alum...
One hugely important factor when spending this kind of money and time is you MUST have your whole set-up planned before doing it. If you really plan on cranking some boost...don't leave the stock CR in there. See if ESS can give you some valid info from previous experience.
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VAC does install the Darten sleeves. You can probably talk to them about getting you a used block... putting the sleeves in it.. then just building the short block for you. Depending on the budget of course.... I can't remember how much it was to get the block bored and sleeved....
I have Carrillo rods in my motor. CP pistons.. its at 9.5.1 compression. I wouldn't go any lower than that. With good parts.... I think it would be fun to do a 10.1 compression... and run 8-10 psi.
all motor would not yield me as much as FI could...
what did you have in mind though?
You're building the motor, so why not go all out NA. 13:1 CR, 9000rpm redline (would require blueprinting, ltw rods, and a balanced crank), headers, cams, and a custom tune (or standalone). You could easily get 600hp out of it. Hell, you could have Dinan retrofit a DP motor for street use if you felt like it.
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