OT: clearing the air over M3 vs. Cobra R vs. Z06 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

AndyMenard · 23rd January 2002, 16:15

Ok, guys... no flames on this please?!!! I just wanted to clear the air on the last few posts on the other thread which got waaaay out of hand.

Someone started discussing the Cobra R, M3, and Z06. And since I currently own a 2000 Cobra R, and had a Dinan Supercharged M3 before getting the BEAST, AND I have a friend who has a Z06, I'd like to give my perspectives on each car.

First, the M3... no doubt one of the best handling cars I have ever owned...and that was with STOCK suspension! It is well mannered, well balanced, and has plenty power ( I am talking about the E36 here) to handle track duty. Although my Cobra R would trounce it in the straights, the M3 would have the advantage in the turns. I sold it because I could not convince my wife I needed to have TWO M cars in the garage?!!

Otherwise, I would probably still have it and would probably be using IT instead of the Cobra R, as I may have not bought the R in the first place?

Second, the Cobra R... it is a very raw machine! Very fast and handles exceptionally well for a Ford. Of course, it has some really good aftermarket stuff on it to transform it from a so-so street car into a curve carving monster on the track. Bilstein struts and shocks, uprated bushings, Eibach sway bars and coil overs, etc.. you get the picture. Camber is set to -2.5 degrees in front and the thing just gobbles up the track, especially with the RA1 track tires I have on it. As far as performance, it is plenty fast enough to keep up with Z06, 996TT, etc.. at least in a straight line. In the turns the Z06 and the TT would have the advantage due to better weight ratios, etc. The R is a hefty 56/44 front/rear weight distribution. But, I am currently working to fix some of these shortcomings. I am currently working on a kit to move my battery to the trunk, where Ford should have put it in the first place. Final thoughts, although the R is certainly not the perfect track car ( I would not blow smoke up your butt in insisting that it is) ... it IS a very capable car and is TONS of fun on both the street and the track - which is where the car was born to be. And most of all, it is a BLAST to drive - Period!!

Third, the Z06... I have a close friend who has one and I have driven it. Man, that thing hauls butt! It is very fast and handles really well. In capable hands on the track, it would probably be slightly faster than my R simply because of the lighter weight. It would certainly not smoke the R though. I am still a bit dissapointed with the overall ergonomics and build quality of the car however, but I still give it a great deal of respect. There is no other car (IMHO) on earth that delivers this much performance for so little money.

Anyway, I wanted to give you guys my perspective on these 3 machines, as I currently own one of them, was past owner on another, and have a friend who owns the remaining car. They are all great cars, they just have different personalities and will appeal to different folks for different reasons...and that is ok. Think of how boring it would be if all cars were the same, kind of like how boring it would be WE were all the same.

Some final thoughts on the other post..... I was somewhat disenchanted with the name calling that was surfacing during the other thread. I realize that the guy who started that thread somewhat stepped into it, but then some of us just threw gasoline on the fire. This, I was dissapointed with. I would like to think that we could all just try to appreciate other folk's machines, and not resort to calling certain brands or models junk. It is certainly OK to have your own opinions about other cars and you should certainly feel free to voice those opinions - but can we try to stay away from inflamatory remarks - PLEASE?!

Ok, I am done with this issue. I feel better now!

Adam · 23rd January 2002, 16:37

I totally agree with your post Andy, and if I could have a specific track car the Stang would definetley make it for the short list!

all the best
Adam

CM5GO · 23rd January 2002, 16:50

Andy,

Do you have any pics of your Cobra? It sounds like a bad ride!

As I mentioned in the previous post, I agree with you about the way that some of us handled the situation. Im not letting the kid completely off the hook because he certainly baited the flames but we can usually spot it and continue on in a respectful manner.

I guess its been a while since that happened so a lot of us were caught off guard and offended that someone invaded our personal space (the board does feel like personal space, sort of like a garage or a lounge chair) with negative comments about our car and one of its drivers. Or maybe a lot of us had already had a bad day and came to the board to get away from any competitive challenges.

Who knows? Hopefully it will be handled better next time.

Hamann7 · 23rd January 2002, 17:33

Hey Andy,

I hope you didn't take any of my comments as offensive or inflammatory. I was actually just trying to stir up a conversation between us and get people's attention off the senseless name calling that was going on in the other thread and instead go into a direct comparo between the Cobra R, M3, Z06, etc. I'm glad you started this post.

Thank you for your post, and I genuinely appreciate your opinion regarding the three cars. I agree, the Cobra R is quite a capable car, ESPECIALLY for a Mustang. It is amazing how different the car is from a stock Mustang, it's like they just used the basic chassis and literally changed everything-- and at only $54K (well, theoretically, in reality it was more like 75K) and with only 300 made, it was a great value, collectible, and RARE! I am surprised that you actually bought one of these rarities for the track, it almost seems too valuable and collectible to beat up on the track

And, I suppose the running costs and the cost of spares would be MUCH cheaper than a Ferrari Challege car... Hey, have you ever raced one of those? How do those hold up against the Vette and the Stang on the track?

I agree that the Z06 is quite capable, but I never really liked Vettes. Their styling I always found to be cheesy, the motor was never anything amazing, and the handling is good on skidpads, but still not my taste. I guess for the price it is an amazing value, but if I was going to spring for a true sports car, I think I would save up the money and get a more competent car like a 996tt or GT2. I just don't think Vette's handle all that well, especially in comparison to the European sports cars. Chevy is not exactly known for creating well-handling products-- after all, look at what kind of racing they participate in, it's mostly circle jerk (Oval track) stuff. I guess there are the C5R's that are running ALMS and things like that, but they are only winning because manufacturers such as Porsche have ceased spending. And, once the M3 V8 matures, we'll see how long those Vipers and Vettes dominate...

I am frankly not surprised that your R can pretty much keep up with the Vette. Hey, if you tweaked your motor more or put in a hairdryer, I'm sure you could beat it, after all, I believe your car is slightly outpowered, isn't it?

Yep, my dream is to buy a nice track only car someday too... if cost was no object, I would race a modified F40, like the guy in the video that Gustav posted...

But, maybe when I start getting more serious about it, I will consider an M3.

AndyMenard · 23rd January 2002, 17:36

Chris,

It takes guts to stand up and admit to one's own indiscretion. I admire you for this. I hope I have made my point and that others will also think about what I have said and be more diplomatic in the future.

Thanks again!

I am currently having some issues with Webshots... man, I miss Photopoint!

I will try to post pics for your viewing pleasure.

AndyMenard · 23rd January 2002, 17:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Hamann7
Hey Andy,

I hope you didn't take any of my comments as offensive or inflammatory. I was actually just trying to stir up a conversation between us and get people's attention off the senseless name calling that was going on in the other thread and instead go into a direct comparo between the Cobra R, M3, Z06, etc. I'm glad you started this post.

Thank you for your post, and I genuinely appreciate your opinion regarding the three cars. I agree, the Cobra R is quite a capable car, ESPECIALLY for a Mustang. It is amazing how different the car is from a stock Mustang, it's like they just used the basic chassis and literally changed everything-- and at only $54K (well, theoretically, in reality it was more like 75K) and with only 300 made, it was a great value, collectible, and RARE! I am surprised that you actually bought one of these rarities for the track, it almost seems too valuable and collectible to beat up on the track

And, I suppose the running costs and the cost of spares would be MUCH cheaper than a Ferrari Challege car... Hey, have you ever raced one of those? How do those hold up against the Vette and the Stang on the track?

I agree that the Z06 is quite capable, but I never really liked Vettes. Their styling I always found to be cheesy, the motor was never anything amazing, and the handling is good on skidpads, but still not my taste. I guess for the price it is an amazing value, but if I was going to spring for a true sports car, I think I would save up the money and get a more competent car like a 996tt or GT2. I just don't think Vette's handle all that well, especially in comparison to the European sports cars. Chevy is not exactly known for creating well-handling products-- after all, look at what kind of racing they participate in, it's mostly circle jerk (Oval track) stuff. I guess there are the C5R's that are running ALMS and things like that, but they are only winning because manufacturers such as Porsche have ceased spending. And, once the M3 V8 matures, we'll see how long those Vipers and Vettes dominate...

I am frankly not surprised that your R can pretty much keep up with the Vette. Hey, if you tweaked your motor more or put in a hairdryer, I'm sure you could beat it, after all, I believe your car is slightly outpowered, isn't it?

Yep, my dream is to buy a nice track only car someday too... if cost was no object, I would race a modified F40, like the guy in the video that Gustav posted... But, maybe when I start getting more serious about it, I will consider an M3.

Hamann7:

Thanks for the reply and for clearing things up. I feel better now!

As for your question concerning the Cobra R and the exclusivity factor... yes, I thought of that when I bought it. Since there are only 300 in existence, it is destined to be a classic and will remain rare for years to come. However, I bought it to have fun, and I will damned well have fun with it!!! It is a blast to drive on the track. Do I worry about thrashing it? yes? But then it is still only a machine... I could always get another one, or something else. You kind of have to put things into perspective... Your own mileage may vary?

I also agree with your assessment on the V8 M3s. By the way, I thought I read somewhere that they won't be running them this season?? maybe in Roundel, or something?? Have you heard this?

Aussie2U · 23rd January 2002, 18:04

Hey, if you guys know anyone who wants a nice black Z06, my brother is selling his. He wants upper $30's for it, it has 7500 miles. Never been tracked.

He sold his 540i for it and while a nice car, he really misses the back seat and less plastic interior of the BMW...

Bart Carter · 23rd January 2002, 18:16

If everybody had the same tastes in cars, we would all be driving M5s! Or Accords! Or Taurus's! Or Fiats!

Hell, its a GOOD thing that everyone doesen't have the same tastes in cars!

And for the record, I would like to have a Z06, a Mustang Cobra, AND an M3!

AndyMenard · 23rd January 2002, 18:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Aussie2U
Hey, if you guys know anyone who wants a nice black Z06, my brother is selling his. He wants upper $30's for it, it has 7500 miles. Never been tracked.

He sold his 540i for it and while a nice car, he really misses the back seat and less plastic interior of the BMW...

Man, if I had room for it and could get it approved with my better half??

I would buy it!

A great deal for someone looking for a very capable track car!

Bart, you've got room in the Vegas Palace, right?

Hamann7 · 23rd January 2002, 18:59

No V8 M3's???

Wow, that is news to me! I thought that BMW was going to make a homologation special due to the production rules. Also, I heard they were going to get penalized allegedly for some rule violations regarding homologation issues? Man, this whole thing gets confusing sometimes...

Besides, why don't they just work on putting the damn S62 motor in there? I'm sure they can find some way to lighten it and maintain near perfect weight distribution... looks like Hartge is giving something for BMW to think about. I mean the V8 puts out about 350 hp, but more torque than the I-6, then again, wouldn't they be better off with 400hp and then some?