Reading through the TIS, it appears that this assembly position can be reached without the aid of a GT1. Using an electronic switch(a BMW special tool I believe) and air pressure through the oil lines in the VANOS you can get the valves in the position they need to be in to allow the VANOS banks to be pulled up high enough to allow you to replace the oil seals.
Seriously, before you just buy another engine consider the possibility that you can do this repair without the aid of a BMW computer. I fail to understand what specific thing a computer could do that you would be unable to do manually with the aid of those BMW special tools, whose cost is far less than that of a new motor. People have posted before how dealerships have allowed them to borrow them at no charge.
dude, am i reading your first post correctly? you are saying that you brought your car in for valve cover gasket leak and in the process of fixing them they notice the vanos seals are leaking. so you are going to buy a new engine rather than just put the car back together and then do the seals later? this can't be the case... right??
or are you saying they already tore the vanos apart, without having the car in assembly poistion or even at tdc?
Last edited by nightkrawler; 16th January 2009 at 13:28.
"I fail to understand what specific thing a computer could do that you would be unable to do manually with the aid of those BMW special tools, whose cost is far less than that of a new motor"..[/quote]
The GT1 has a program for replacing the Vanos units. the Computer will run a test on them to see if they are working properly and then it will give you the option of shuting the engine down in VANOS assembly position. The computer will actually shut the engine down by itself and place the cams in the correct position so that the VANOS can be removed and replaced properly. I just went through this with my second VANOS unit replacement on my car at my shop. I watched my tech do the procedure and it took him all of 15min to remove the VANOS after having everything preped for the replacement. This stuff is very complex with these cars and unfortunatley their are just some things that people will not be able to do with out the aid of the factory tools. If you think this is complex try doing anything yourself to a new E60 M5, Damn thing does not even have a dip stick
I agree with you though that this is nothing compared to buying and replacing an engine. This is really not a big deal, I am sure there is a good indy around with a GT1 that would be willing to help.
Last edited by Thunderbird; 16th January 2009 at 17:15.
The GT1 has a program for replacing the Vanos units. the Computer will run a test on them to see if they are working properly and then it will give you the option of shuting the engine down in VANOS assembly position. The computer will actually shut the engine down by itself and place the cams in the correct position so that the VANOS can be removed and replaced properly. I just went through this with my second VANOS unit replacement on my car at my shop. I watched my tech do the procedure and it took him all of 15min to remove the VANOS after having everything preped for the replacement. This stuff is very complex with these cars and unfortunatley their are just some things that people will not be able to do with out the aid of the factory tools. If you think this is complex try doing anything yourself to a new E60 M5, Damn thing does not even have a dip stick
I agree with you though that this is nothing compared to buying and replacing an engine. This is really not a big deal, I am sure there is a good indy around with a GT1 that would be willing to help.
I agree with you completely. The GT1 is THE TOOL for diagnosing VANOS problems. And until this thread, I had no idea there was a simple assembly program the GT1 can run to put the cams/valves in position to aid in removal. As you have stated, using a GT1 makes the process quick, and why the OP wants to toss away a motor given a leaking oil seal is very puzzling.
But, as I have said you don't need the GT1 to do this. Given the OP's aversion to using the GT1 computer all I was saying is that it is entirely possible to do this without the aid of a computer as well. The crank and cams can still be adjusted while the car is off using BMW special tools. It's been done without a GT1 before, although as you have said the aid of a computer makes the process much easier.
I still fail to see how any of this warrants the purchase of another motor.
When one says, "you're SOL" to me that is you can't do what you are trying to do. I had them push the car into the corner and return the orings. It seems pretty apparent that the car, in the state that it is in can not be fixed. rendering the engine garbage.
If I'm misreading something, please tell me. I don't have a GT1, nor access to one, and even if I did, the engine is apart and the cost of putting it back together, coupled with the cost of a GT1, then taking it apart again, far outweighs the cost of engine replacement.
I just feel bad for all the poor SOBs, that think they fixed thier vaos seals or solenoids without the GT1 and are driving their car around with broked vanos units.
Bob
__________________
2001 Jet Black M5
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7 HEMI
2001 Dodge neon - Slomatic winter beater
When one says, "you're SOL" to me that is you can't do what you are trying to do. I had them push the car into the corner and return the orings. It seems pretty apparent that the car, in the state that it is in can not be fixed. rendering the engine garbage.
If I'm misreading something, please tell me. I don't have a GT1, nor access to one, and even if I did, the engine is apart and the cost of putting it back together, coupled with the cost of a GT1, then taking it apart again, far outweighs the cost of engine replacement.
Wait a minute, are you kidding me!
Replacing Valve Cover Gaskets on an M5 only bills 6 to 7 hours of labor plus the cost of the part and replacing VANOS units only bills 4 hours at the most per side so thats 8 hours of labor if you had to do both. Plus the parts will cost you around 120.00 for Valve Cover gaskets with new bushings and which ever VANOS unit you need is about 1600 at the most so I am coming up with 4700 to 5000 dollars at the most for that job. That is if both VANOS units are bad or leaking as well as valve covers. If its just one VANOS unit that needs to be fixed then it will be less.
There is no way that the cost of Valve cover gaskets and 2 VANOS replacements equals replacing the engine. Hell you could have the thing towed to our shop in Atl GA and done for alot less money than replacing the whole engine. Last time I checked the S62 refurbed with warranty from BMWNA was about $22,000 and another 2K in core charges. Even a used S62 is going for around $10,000 then you have to pay them to put it in the car and have it programed to the control units. I could do the job and have the car towed back for less than a new motor.
Even if the car is apart already I would tow it to a BMW dealer and let them deal with it or find a good indy with a GT1 to help you.
If I can help let me know you can PM me, We do these jobs all the time. I would hate to see you get burned
Last edited by Thunderbird; 16th January 2009 at 20:01.
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Wait a minute, are you kidding me!
Replacing Valve Cover Gaskets on an M5 only bills 6 to 7 hours of labor plus the cost of the part and replacing VANOS units only bills 4 hours at the most per side so thats 8 hours of labor if you had to do both. Plus the parts will cost you around 120.00 for Valve Cover gaskets with new bushings and which ever VANOS unit you need is about 1600 at the most so I am coming up with 4700 to 5000 dollars at the most for that job. That is if both VANOS units are bad or leaking as well as valve covers. If its just one VANOS unit that needs to be fixed then it will be less.
There is no way that the cost of Valve cover gaskets and 2 VANOS replacements equals replacing the engine. Hell you could have the thing towed to our shop in Atl GA and done for alot less money than replacing the whole engine. Last time I checked the S62 refurbed with warranty from BMWNA was about $22,000 and another 2K in core charges. Even a used S62 is going for around $10,000 then you have to pay them to put it in the car and have it programed to the control units. I could do the job and have the car towed back for less than a new motor.
Even if the car is apart already I would tow it to a BMW dealer and let them deal with it or find a good indy with a GT1 to help you.
If I can help let me know you can PM me, We do these jobs all the time. I would hate to see you get burned
What he said.
You're not SOL. Plenty of Indys and BMW shops have a GT1, they aren't that uncommon. Hell, you can apparently even buy a GT1 nowadays from China for less than $1000, including the diagnostic equipment and a cheap laptop to come with it.
For reference to all: The VANOS CAN be removed without the aid of a GT1. The TIS #11 36 050 makes this apparent, and I have it attached. It seems that if you are willing to spend a little extra time to remove the valve covers you can adjust the cams by hand using those BMW special tools (which you'd need anyway) and some air pressure. That will allow the VANOS to be removed without the aid of a GT1 setting it into assembly position.
Thanks For The info, I did not know that you could do it with out a GT1. I asked one of my techs and he agreed that you can do it with out but he prefers to use the Gt1 because it is much easier and faster. We did 16 different VANOS replacements in 2008. The E39 M5 is definately the bulk of those repairs.
Speaking of VANOS units on the M5 Steve Dinan told me once that the E39 M5 should have come with 2 spare VANOS units in the glove box, LOL!!
We are starting to see more and more of them as the S62's begin to age.
hey man, dont take me saying you're "sol" the wrong way. i did not mean that the engine should be junked now. only that according to the bmw repair instructions, the vanos needs to be put in assembly position with the gt1 before they are removed. i would most definitely have the car towed to a bmw dealership. find a good one that is somewhat local. i dont know for sure so lets get some basic info straight,
1) what exactly has been removed from the car this far, have they actually removed the vanos units ? or do they only have the valve covers off, and have not yet disturbed the vanos?
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