mod a M5?

william996TT · 23rd January 2002, 10:25

hmm... I have been in this board for a couple of days, one thing I noticed about alot of the M5 owners here is that they have heavily modified their cars...

I was curious, (not trying to flame) as i thought the prime objective of a M5 is combination of comfort/luxury/performance. but alot of m5 owners here modiflied suspension, short shift, exhaust,flywheels,racing seat..etc doesn't it defeat the purpose of a M5? Why not buy a weekend track car for racing purpose instead. There are always balance in term of comfort and sportiness. The more sporty the car is the less comfort you have. If the M5 can be sportier with no sacrifice.. BMW should have done it already long time ago... after some many hrs of R&D.

I can understand if people buy a M coupe or M3 and modifly it to a race car. But a M5? I don't think anyone here will slide their cars with the whole family in it

That's why some people choose the E55 over the M5 for the automatic gearbox.

just my thought..

Jacob Lee · 23rd January 2002, 12:50

disclaimer - i haven't "heavily modified" my M5 such as the list given, so not sure if i qualify to respond, but here's my 02 irish punts:

the sad truth is that while i personally believe that the people on this board, and the type of people who would very much enjoy this board if and when they ever find it in the future, represent the best of the M5 buyers...i.e true BMW lovers and specifically M5 enthusiasts, i don't think we actually represent the majority of M5 owners or the "typical" majority market that even niche designs such as the M5 was targeted at. consequently, some owners tweak their M5 a little, some a lot, all based on what they thought those darned BMW engineers OUGHT to have done it in the first place. yes, i think we all agree the M5 is special and noted for the balance of comfort/luxury/performance, but the differing opinions of some people is that those three criteria are not necessarily fixed to an exact ratio, down to decimal. rather, for some people the acceptable "balance" point is an intersecton of all three qualities much like three curves on a graph at an intersection which represents a range, not a specific coordinate.

BMW, like any corporation, wants to maximize sales and profits. given all the restrictions inherently limiting total volume on the M5 anways - i.e. price, overall market penetration compared to the real huge volume sellers like Ford, etc, the M5 was not engineered to be the best car it could be within the performance envelope already capable because BMW wanted the broadest market appeal possible within the niche of buyers who can afford a 75k+ vehicle AND wasn't looking exclusively for a pure sports car (i.e. porsche). it was engineered / designed to accomodate what is essentially the constant struggle of dark vs light, evil vs good, marketing drone vs pure of heart engineer, "features" vs performance....ok, so you see my bias

as the original question asked, "If the M5 can be sportier with no sacrifice.. BMW should have done it already long time ago... after some many hrs of R&D." - overall pretty true, the M5 does epitomize in my mind at least, the concept of performance without sacrafice which BMW touts so much in ads; but technically, that line should read "relative performance" without "relative sacrafice", each to be determined by the individual gauging whether a bit more or less of either is a better/worse balance.

in my mind, the stock M5 CAN be sportier with no sacrafice. but you see, that's only because i happen to be the individual that decides for me what is and what isn't a sacrafice, relative to my personal criteria, wants, needs, etc. so after much reading of ooo's and ahhhhs about the Dinan Stage III suspension, I got that along with some other Dinan goodies specifically because i felt the performance gain would not offset my acceptable comfort range. again, this is just purely to my own standards, but while i feel that of course the ride is now definitely a bit different, i don't feel i sacraficed any comfort (for me). while i could argue that any mod's performance gain should be fairly quantifiable, it's really only up to each individual who gets this or any other mod whether there was a "sacrafice" or not based on the character of the change in "stock" comfort for ride, handling, whatever.

another way to look at it is that the BMW design team - engineers, marketing, management, etc., after trial and error came up with a pre-decided balance between "performance" and "comfort" that would have the broadest possible appeal. in a way, one could argue that for some people at least, comfort was already sacraficed for performance. compared to a 540i for example, there is as much validity in saying the suspension difference between the stock 540i vs stock M5 was a "sacrafice" of ride comfort for handling "performance".

in my mind, there's a smaller differential between ride comfort going from the stock M5 to Dinan stage III, than there is going from the 540i to the M5. again, in big disclaimer, based on my own subjective "feel" from my 99 540i and 01 M5. i didn't think either was "uncofortable", just that if it came down to it, the difference is finer between stock M5 and adding the Dinan suspension than going from stock 540i to stock M5.

so ultimately, it boils down to whether the BMW engineers could have wrung more performance out of the vehicle before settling on the current stock form. answer is obviously yes. whether that increase in performance is a "sacrafice" depends purely on what you feel is an acceptible mix. the true character of the M5 is I agree about having that balance, that best of all worlds kind of car.
but like i said above, that balance is not an exact point but a range; maybe a small range yes, but nevertheless wide enough to have differing opinions on the ratios without saying we're changing the spirit or intended purpose of the M5.

for me, i've never tracked a vehicle and don't ever plan on doing so with my M5. i never intended to put mods on it for the intention of racing, but merely to address a small disagreement in balance issue that was sort of pre-decided for me by BMW.

this is just intuition supported by nothing but "i think so", but if BMW sold the stock version of the M5 with whatever was the equivalent to Dinan's stage III suspension plus stage 1 mipp software chip, i don't believe there is anyone on this board who would not have still bought their M5 assuming price was the same; even though there are a lot of these same people who already like their stock M5 just fine and feel no need to go out and get the Dinan mods despite being able to easily afford it. just that if that's how the car came stock, they wouldn't have turned it down. however, i do think there are a number of non-enthusiasts who would complain about the "harsher" or "too firm" ride and decide that the M5 wasn't for them and thus not buy the car in favor of whatever was their next comparison car.

rennen · 23rd January 2002, 12:51

Before the five I had a 1995 M3 with everything in the Dinan catalog done to it. It rode like a race car and woke up the whole neighborhood when I started it. It was a blast. When the lease was up on that I got the five. At that point I was working and wanted a car that conveyed a more professional look. So I swore I would not touch it. That lasted about a week. For car guys the temptation is too strong. The car doesn't lose anything in terms of comfort or luxury, and it makes it more enjoyable for you.

Jacob Lee · 23rd January 2002, 12:59

rennen,

just curious - i own my M5 but am thinking of getting another car, an 02 M3. i'm thinking of leasing it but was curious to know what the consequences of putting mods on a leased car was.

no exact idea, but i'd always heard some vague stuff about how you weren't allowed to modify a leased car?

did you have to take all the stuff off when you turned your M3 in, or did you just buy it out / sell via private party?

anyone else know what would happen if I leased an 02 M3 and put some Dinan stuff on it?

SouthshoreM6 · 23rd January 2002, 13:34

I loved my M5 when it was stock, but I *really* love it modified to suit my tastes. I've owned dozens of cars and I don't think I left any of them stock. I enjoy making them "mine".

And hey, it solves that problem of having money lying around where it might get lost! Just shovel it into the cars, or the boat (that is modified too).

johann · 23rd January 2002, 14:07

Well put Jacob!

Cheers,
/Johan

TCM · 23rd January 2002, 14:43

Bill:

I did not know you had a boat. What make and model? Where do you use it? I have a '69 Bertram Baron (race boat, only 21 were made, 5 left) and I keep it up at the Lake. I must admit, a car cannot match a boat for fun when you hit the throttle and hold on waiting for the bow to come down. Unfortunately, boats cost an arm and a leg to do anything to.

Amazing how similiar all the interests are by the people on this board.

Teutonaddict · 23rd January 2002, 14:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Jacob Lee
rennen,

i'm thinking of leasing it but was curious to know what the consequences of putting mods on a leased car was.

did you have to take all the stuff off when you turned your M3 in, or did you just buy it out / sell via private party?

anyone else know what would happen if I leased an 02 M3 and put some Dinan stuff on it?

Jacob, I can speak to the consequences of modding a leased vehicle, b/c every Bimmer I've driven except the very first one was leased. Bottom line: the ONLY time modifications (or miles beyond the agreement, for that matter) become significant is IF you try to turn the vehicle back in at the end of the lease term. Otherwise, if you terminate early, it's merely a proposition of (lease) payoff and market value.

Background: I financed my first, a 92 E36 325i/5, and flipped it in 18 months. Given that I didn't really build any equity in that timeframe (you never 'own' a financed vehicle until the payoff date), I decided to try leasing thru BMWFS for the next, a 94 E34 530i/5. Two years later, when I happened upon the original six-speed 540i (an E34 95), I traded the car to the dealer, since I had $1500 equity (the delta between lease payoff and their trade-in offer) in that car. Pretty cool, I thought!

The excitement of the E34 540i/6 lasted right up until the E39 six-speed arrived. At that time, I found a buyer for the E34 thru a Roundel ad, and agreed upon a sales price that was $2K north of my payoff. [I must note that, because I stayed with BMWFS through all of these leases, and I kept acquiring upmarket models, BMW used an "Owner Loyalty" payoff amount that did NOT include an early term penalty.] The dealership where I bought my E39 was kind enough to handle the transaction (i.e., run the sale through their business) for a $300 administration fee.

When it came time for the arrival of my Beast (#6 on the original list, 12 month wait), I had already secured a buyer for my 540i/6. Same deal: the buyer wrote a check to the dealer, and I applied that to the payoff and deducted the admin fee. Again, on the last deal, I may have had $1K in net proceeds from a lease.

While I did lease the Beast, I don't intend to let this machine go so easily! I have modified it to my liking and discarded/sold the OEM parts (B&Bs, Kinesis, UUC, Angel Eyes, M-Technic ducts, etc.) I will most likely purchase the vehicle at the end of the term, at the price set forth in the original lease contract. Again, since I'm not turning it back to BMW, there's no penalty for miles or mods.

Used this way, a lease is merely a different financial vehicle. If you finance, you pay more up front, and if you lease your liability may be on the back-end. (If you pay cash, you shouldn't be reading this!) While leasing got a 'bad rap' in the early days for screwing lesees via open-ended contracts and end-of-term fees, they are a much more reliable financial option today. [Caveat: my experience is limited to dealing with BMWFS. YMMV.]

Hope that helps!
-Dave

Jacob Lee · 23rd January 2002, 15:16

thanks Dave - that helped a lot. i'm still only 50-50 or maybe 60-40 on the SMG M3, but if I do take the plunge, i'll try the lease and just plan on selling it before lease end.

that BMWFS loyalty thing about not dinging you on the early termination sounds good too... sure seems sorta counter productive for them to whack you with an early termination fee if the reason you're terminating early is to move up to another equivalent or better BMW.

CM5GO · 23rd January 2002, 15:29

Well done Jacob. Very impressive piece of literary work their my friend!

For the record I have always leased and always modded with the intention of selling the car privately at the end of the lease. It has worked out well for me every time. Both thimes that I sold the car at the end of the lease I actually made money on the car.

William,

First of all welcome to the board. I had an additional thought to Jacobs regarding the modification frenzy on M5's on this board. He did a wonderful job explaining the personal judgement of the comfort/performance balance which is very true. I know that another reason people modify their cars is the same reason a lot of us bought the car in the first place. That reason is exclusivity.

When you modify a car and change little things to your personal liking, you are making the car more exclusive than it already is. I can guaranty that almost every car on this board is a one of a kind. I relish in the fact that there is not a single car out there exactly like mine. It is tuned to be perfect for me.

That is what makes this board and M5 get together's so fun. Each M5 is like a spy glass into someone elses personality and emotions. This is one of the resaons we are all so close on this board. In some sense we are bearing our deepest emotions, aspirations, and feelings through our cars. You can learn a lot about a person through his car.

Sure this may sound crazy or even twisted and pathetic to someone who is not an enthusiast but thats one of the greatest parts about it. We dont care what every one else thinks because its personal and we enjoy it. We are a rare bunch. It took me a while to realize that not everyone who owns these cars feels the same way we do.

I have run into many M5 drivers on the street that have no passion for the car and could'nt care less about what they were driving. This caught me off guard a couple of times until I realized that, to some peole, it is just a car. These are the type of people that likely would'nt modify their car.

Luckily there is a home called BMWM5.COM for the rest of us sickos that have such a passion for the M5 and everything that it stands for.

Man......... I just realized what a loser I am. Oh well... Im happy