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Timmay77's stereo build (complete aftermarket system)

354K views 612 replies 78 participants last post by  DennisCooper 
#1 · (Edited)
I am in the process of tearing out EVERYTHING from my 01 M5 and putting a complete aftermarket system in. I will update this thread as things progress. Let's start with the parts list of the new stuff...

Alpine IVA-W505 - 7" 2 din multimedia station
Alpine NVE-P1 - removable navigation drive (no vss needed)
Alpine PXA-H100 - Imprint module
Alpine DHA-S680 - DVD/CD Changer
Alpine SPX-17REF - 6.5" component set
Alpine SPS-500 - 5.25" co-axial rear fill
Alpine SWR-1242D (2) - 12" DVC 4 ohm subwoofer
Memphis Audio 16-MCD1000 - 1100x1 @ 1 ohm sub amp
Memphis Audio 16-MCA2004 - 4 channel amp

Pac TR7 - Video bypass module (illegal I know, I don't want to hear it :byee55amg)
PAC SWI-JACK - steering wheel control module

Mounting kit for deck from Ebay
eBay Motors: BMW 5 series E39 double din bezel &complete install-kit (item 360119388261 end time Jan-04-09 12:07:28 PST)=

Now for some pictures....

Hole in dash where the Nav monitor used to be.....


Rear deck removed, speaker for the PDC. (Thanks DouglasABaker)


Subwoofer location. These are actually mounted from the bottom, but the screws have to be removed from the top.


GPS antenna (I think) on drivers side under the rear deck


Radio antenna (I think) in the drivers side rear pillar


Driver's side rear speaker loaction


Passenger's side rear speaker pod. Much larger than I thought they would be.



Trunk after my DSP Amp, Radio module, and CD changer were removed.


Wiring harness where I am going to tap into the speaker wires.
 
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#258 ·
In this picture, is the brown wire the ground? SinceI have all of my factory plugs off, I am sure it is not grounded if that is the ground. I will need to ground it in order for it to work.....

 
#261 ·
They run the ground all the way to the front of the car to land it? Wow. Is that a direct run or did they run it nto the wiring harness to the amp/radio? Since I have all of those unplugged, will it still be grounded? Thanks D

I traced my engine whine down the the Alpine PDX-H100 Imprint Module. Sweet.......grrrrrrr
 
#263 ·
If you think about it, the only way to prevent alt whine is to ground everything together. With 1/2 your stuff in the trunk and additional stuff up front it is all just a matter of which way you want to run the wire...

I didn't trace the wire through WDS, but based on what I saw it I'm pretty sure it goes directly there.

d-
 
#267 ·
Keep at it timmay.
 
#271 ·
Ok Doug, Peter, let's talk about RCA's. After FURTHER testing, I found a TON of noise in my darn RCA's. With everything unhooked except my front speakers, crossovers, and my mid/high amp, NO RCA's attached, there is absolutely NO NOISE. So I am guessing I was picking something up with my Stinger RAC's.

What brand do you use? I need 3ft RCA's......
 
#272 · (Edited)
That's called Ground Loop Interference, or in laymans terms, alternator whine.

Personally, I use KnuKonceptz products exclusively. Best bang for the buck in my opinion. BUT, I doubt that is your issue. More likely than not you still have a ground issue.

Here is what is happening (typically) - without seeing your setup I obviously can't be certain: 2 of your components are at different potential relative to ground. When these 2 components are not connected by RCA's, there is no noise in the system - power enters from the battery and exits through the ground wire of each component just as it should. There obviously is also no music since nothing is connected.

When you connect the RCA's between the 2 components, you introduce a new route for the power to ground itself in one of the components. Power enters through component A, travels along the RCA, and grounds itself through component B. This, not surprisingly, is bad.

Get out your multimeter and check the resistance from the ground terminal of each component relative to the negative terminal of the battery. They ALL need to be 0. Find the one that isn't 0 and it will solve your issue.

You can also try a pair of grounded RCA's, although I doubt it will solve the issue. These are exactly what they sound like - tip, ring, and ground wires as opposed to just the usual tip and ring of a normal RCA.

Lastly, you can try ground loop isolation RCA's. These incorporate a small transformer to physically isolate the input from the output and prevent grounding through the RCA's...

d-
 
#275 ·
Done!
 
#276 ·
Ok, Tim, here are a couple more things to think about, and requests for info (sorry, I haven't followed your whole install)

General rule of thumb: High current and low current wires always cross at a 90 degree angle and never run parallel to each other unless they are more than 12-18" apart. The higher the current the greater the spacing needs to be. There is significant debate as to whether current induced noise is actually real, and frankly I don't think it is, but it isn't going to hurt to clean up the wiring a bit.

And if those are crimp connectors, which they certainly look like they might be, on your speaker and other wires, I'm going to come out there and kick your *ss myself.

Run me through those components - what is in the right rear of your trunk? It looks like a distribution block, but I also see a couple twisted pairs running back there... Above your subs I see crossovers on the left, but what else is hanging out there?

And finally, you went aftermarket head unit, right? Where is that grounded? If you tell me it is grounded somewhere other than with your amps, then just go right back to post #272 :)

d-
 
#279 · (Edited)
Ok, Tim, here are a couple more things to think about, and requests for info (sorry, I haven't followed your whole install)

General rule of thumb: High current and low current wires always cross at a 90 degree angle and never run parallel to each other unless they are more than 12-18" apart. The higher the current the greater the spacing needs to be. There is significant debate as to whether current induced noise is actually real, and frankly I don't think it is, but it isn't going to hurt to clean up the wiring a bit.

I know this, done....

And if those are crimp connectors, which they certainly look like they might be, on your speaker and other wires, I'm going to come out there and kick your *ss myself.

They are, but I soldered the ends.....I have always done this method, if there is another, I am all ears. The only way to connect wires to the crossovers is by a spade connector.

EDIT: You mean between the factory wires and my aftermarket wires.... Yes they are, but have since been replaced. I was impatiently waiting for my twisted speaker wire to arrive, so I threw those in with some home audio wire.

Run me through those components - what is in the right rear of your trunk? It looks like a distribution block, but I also see a couple twisted pairs running back there... Above your subs I see crossovers on the left, but what else is hanging out there?

There is nothing but power and ground on the right side of the trunk.....I twisted my power and ground with a drill for a cleaner install. Is that a no-no too? I learned it from Kirk Perry and Lynn Whittaker who scored the first every perfect 40 on the RTA in SQ in IASCA competition. I've been doing that for the past 15 years.....

And finally, you went aftermarket head unit, right? Where is that grounded? If you tell me it is grounded somewhere other than with your amps, then just go right back to post #272 :)

I HAD the HU grounded with everything else in the trunk. I DID HAVE everything grounded at the same spot. But running a 18ft wire to the trunk to ground my HU cause noise. I re-grounded my HU and it's smaller parts (steering wheel control/video bypass module) to the frame tubing under the dash, which eliminated some of the whine.

d-
When I mentioned something about the RCA's, they were not hooked up to anything but my amp. I disconnected them from the other component. Once I unplugged them all together, I instantly had no noise.

The only thing beside the crossovers is my Alpine Imprint Processor, DQXS, and the HD Radio module.
 
#280 ·
#281 ·
Hi Tim,

If I understand you correctly, you got noise when you plugged the 1 end of the RCA's into the amps and left the other ends plugged into nothing and unterminated. This will cause noise since you've essentially created an RCA antenna. If you want to check to see if the RCA's are a problem then you need to do the same thing, but this time terminate the the previously "open" + and - ends to each other.

d-
 
#283 · (Edited)
I would start by bypassing the DQXS and Imprint Module, run the HU directly into the amps.

If you still have whine, then it could be a faulty amp, HU, or bad RCA cables. If the whine goes away, then start adding components back in.

You didn't have the whine before, right? what changed?
 
#286 ·
I always had a very small hint of whine, I just didn't mind it. Now that I added the DQXS, which boosts the signal, the whine is much more noticeable.

0.1 and 0.2 won't cut it. Have you re-sanded the grounds? You HAVE to make them all equal.

As mentioned by xr4tic though, it is possible you have a faulty "something". Start with as few components as possible: head unit + a single speaker (not the ones in your doors - use one of your old ones) if you can. Do you have whine? If not, add in the amp (just the amp). Then add the crossovers and speakers. Whenever the whine returns you've found the components (there will always be the module you added + a set of interconnects) that you need to test. Once you've got the basics, THEN you can consider adding in your Imprint, then your DQXS. Baby steps Tim, baby steps.

For all you other boys and girls out there considering a swap: This is why professional car stereo installation is so expensive. When it goes right, everyone is happy. When it goes wrong, it can take DAYS of labor to diagnose and may involve swapping components (which are now used, and therefore worth less). Cars are easily the most electronically noisy environment in which you will ever function - don't underestimate the pain they can inflict on you both emotionally and physically (think hot solder).
I will start from square one, AGAIN.

I did this already and found the imprint module to be faulty. Which has been replaced, and I STILL HAVE WHINE.

HOW DO I GET THEM ALL TO 0? I seriously worked on it for 5 hours today trying. Sanding grounds, shortening wires, soldering EVERY connection. It seems impossible......
 
#284 · (Edited)
0.1 and 0.2 won't cut it. Have you re-sanded the grounds? You HAVE to make them all equal.

As mentioned by xr4tic though, it is possible you have a faulty "something". Start with as few components as possible: head unit + a single speaker (not the ones in your doors - use one of your old ones) if you can. Do you have whine? If not, add in the amp (just the amp). Then add the crossovers and speakers. Whenever the whine returns you've found the components (there will always be the module you added + a set of interconnects) that you need to test. Once you've got the basics, THEN you can consider adding in your Imprint, then your DQXS. Baby steps Tim, baby steps.

For all you other boys and girls out there considering a swap: This is why professional car stereo installation is so expensive. When it goes right, everyone is happy. When it goes wrong, it can take DAYS of labor to diagnose and may involve swapping components (which are now used, and therefore worth less). Cars are easily the most electronically noisy environment in which you will ever function - don't underestimate the pain they can inflict on you both emotionally and physically (think hot solder).
 
#285 ·
And you've checked to make sure your meter is zero'd out, right? Fresh batteries?
 
#287 ·
I just talked to my buddy at Alpine. The only think left is the HU. He suggested that I park my Accord next to my M5 and run RCA's from the HU in my Accord over to my M5 and see if the whine goes away. The ground resistance on my HU IS 0 for sure, so this one will blow my mind if the whine goes away.
 
#293 · (Edited)
This is a little late in the game but here is another option available to you Timmay: First of all, the Imprint processor is meant to be a simple self tuning processor, but in your system I believe it's only purpose is to take you from the 2v head unit output to a 4 volt signal ( since you have the DQXS that would allow you manual tuning of your system). The best way to reduce/ eliminate noise would be to increase your signal to noise ratio. What if you sold the Imprint processor and the DQXS processor and bought the Alpine PXA-H701? That would give you 4v output, full ( manual ) sound processor adjustment, and it uses fiber optic signal cables from the head unit ( and DVD changer if available ). The fiber optic cables would be immune to any EMI, so you would just have to mount the processor far away from any EMI problem areas. Some audio will run on the Ainet cables depending on what your source is ( DVD and CD should run on the fiber optic cables, not sure if FM uses the Ainet or not ).

Either way, in your current system, since you have ( or would have with the PXA-H701) a 4 volt signal, the gains on your amps should be at the 4 volt position. If it is still not loud enough in that position ( usually adjusted all the way down ) then your amp is not powerful enough for your volume demand. By setting the gains at the 4 volt position, or all the way down, you are increasing your signal to noise ratio. You might still have some noise, but it is much easier to fix once the gain structure is correct.

Hope this helps you out, I do not expect to be able to troubleshoot your car thru the forum, but at least I might give you an idea that helps you solve the problem, good luck. Check page 90 for the system diagram of the 505 and 701 http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_IVA-W505.pdf
 
#294 ·
That is a reasonable suggestion, methodsound, but it will alleviate his problem, it will simply make it less noticeable. Certainly a greater signal:noise ratio is desirable in all cases, and I agree that an ai-net cable is not subject to EMI, but EMI is rarely the cause of alt whine unless you have run an unshielded (or improperly grounded) RCA directly on top of a 100A line - it is a possible cause, but GLI is almost always at the root of the problem.

You've got a handful of suggestions awaiting you Tim - work your way through the troubleshooting suggested. Let us know where the problem occurs and we'll try to help you fix it.

d-
 
#299 ·
I also had an alternator whine after adding my DQXS, so I'm not sure if it's a common problem or not. I was able to greatly reduce mine by relocating it.

I still have a little whine, it's barely noticeable, but I will be replacing my DQXS with a MS-8 soon
 
#301 ·
I hooked it up in my Accord for ****ngiggles today to see if it was a faulty unit or just didn't like the rest of the system in my M. I used a separate power source and a relay to turn on the remote. No whine, no issues. Then again, my Accords system is VERY basic. I guess Audio Control and Alpine don't like each other.

I have a very well taken care of DQXS if anyone is interested...... I will be putting it up on Ebay when I get back from Atlanta next weekend.
 
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