OT: Torque = Training Wheels? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

alpywhite · 21st January 2002, 03:16

I was just reminded of the Beast's great torque characteristics on different posts, and a theory occurred to me:

Would a car with big torque - particularly off-idle - be easier for a person to learn to drive Standard with?

- Less likelihood of stalling
- Learn quickly that revving isn't necessary
- Etc.

There's the obvious danger of too much grunt being under a rookie's foot, but let's pretend we're just practicing pulling away from a dead stop in an empty parkade...

Whaddaya think?

Alps

EBMCS03 · 21st January 2002, 03:29

I thought it would be harder to learn on a more torquey car. Cuz you would have to release the clutch more slower hence need more concentration on the clutch in order to have a smooth launch. Are you going to teach someone to drive Stick in your beast??

MEnthusiast · 21st January 2002, 03:39

I agree- I think its more difficult.

Most people who dont know how to drive standard will be very heavy with the gas pedal. Learning how to be subtle with the gas, while dealing with a new muscle memory (clutch) takes a lot. A lot of power makes this more difficult IMHO.

beanboy · 21st January 2002, 03:41

Learning in the M5 was VERY hard. All the power made it extremely hard to drive...it was much easier to stall.
While I was still learning to drive the M5 I hopped in my friend's old volvo and another friend's miata...I was fine on those, even though I still stalled sometimes on the M5.

Parker

Need4Spd · 21st January 2002, 03:51

How about something in the middle? A lot of torque in some ways makes it easier, but as others point out, it's hard to get a smooth launch due to all that torque, though the torque will help avoid stalls, especially on hills. The biggest problem will be the tendency to give it lots of throttle and slip the clutch to avoid stalling. Hi-torque motor + beginner = burned clutches and premature wear.

At the opposite side of the spectrum is an underpowered car w/ too low a level of torque. There aren't too many of these around, but usually an example would be an American built compact car with base level engine. Lots of weight to pull with not enough engine. You will learn very bad habits like slipping the clutch a lot to start on hills, unless you learn early how to use the parking brake.

So, best would be something moderate, like a Toyota Corolla, which has reasonable power for the weight of the car and very light and easily engaged clutch. Actually, the "best" car to learn on is... someone else's!

tfung · 21st January 2002, 07:16

Definitely think the opposite would be better for learning.. I learned myself on a 60hp suzuki vitara, and the damn thing stalled on me everytime I did a bad clutch release, etc... really helped me learn the finer ways to work the clutch.. if you had a car with so much power, firstly you'll more likely to fry to clutch, and secondly, they'll never be able to drive anything with less power...

JEM · 21st January 2002, 07:39

It's not the torque of the M5 that makes it a little tough to get a smooth launch, it's just that the clutch is somewhat touchy and I think that dual-mass flywheel introduces a slightly odd feel if you're not absolutely spot-on.

Big low-rpm torque and a heavy flywheel are the easiest way to learn to drive a manual transmission. Then you just teach the clutch engagement, and leave the gas pedal alone until the clutch is fully in.

M5Ted · 21st January 2002, 10:47

I would deffinatly say that more torque makes a car easier for a beginner. The torque allows the driver to let out the clutch without giving the car any gas, and therefore, there is less of a risk of stalling. Over time the beginner will learn how much gas to give when starting, but by not giving the car any gas there is no risk of slipping the clutch and it teaches the driver just how smooth you need to be with a manual.

DZeckhausen · 21st January 2002, 15:34

Quote:

Originally posted by tfung
Definitely think the opposite would be better for learning.. I learned myself on a 60hp suzuki vitara, and the damn thing stalled on me everytime I did a bad clutch release, etc... really helped me learn the finer ways to work the clutch.. if you had a car with so much power, firstly you'll more likely to fry to clutch, and secondly, they'll never be able to drive anything with less power...

I had EXACTLY the same experience. I learned how to drive on a 1973 Volvo 145 automatic. Then I learned how to drive a stick shift on a Volkswagon beetle. If you screwed up a shift, you stallled. Simple as that. It taught me how to feather the clutch and throttle and develop some skill in shifting. Learning a stick on a V8 muscle car may be a bit faster (timewise) in the short run and a bit less frustrating. However, it will allow you to develop bad habits that will be hard to break later. It's just like learning to race. Your first race car should have street tires and 20 hp.

My dad had the same experience playing basketball in high school. He had his growth spurt during his senior year and became one of the taller players AFTER learning how to play well as one of the shorter players.

CaliAgent · 21st January 2002, 23:10

I learned on an '84 Jeep CJ-7
the torque was high and I thought it was harder than the less torque '88 subaru wagon. but once I learned how to use it better the one with more torque was easier to get precise launches, etc.