Hello all, Im new here and have been reading up on everything that could possibly go wrong with the e39 M5. I've been reading about vanos problems, carbon build up, clutch life, water pump failure, etc...
I've been looking into picking one up with about 99,000 miles. I know its pretty up there in mileage and after reading all the post on vanos and carbon build up, I got to wondering... How many people actually encounter complete vanos failure? The dealer says that the car has been maintained and from the looks and sounds of the car, it seems ok.
I've checked for oil leaks, the diesel sound, and for rust but Im no pro. I am pretty mechanically inclined. I do most the work myself, but the only thing that scares me is the Vanos issue that everyone speaks of...
Back to the main point, I was wondering if there is anything anyone could do to temporarly quiet down the vanos unit for a quick sale. I fully intend to get a PPI but is it possible to to shut up a broken vanos unit to trick a buyer?
I've been on many forums for all kinds of different types of cars, but by far this board has been the best in terms of information regaurding faults and failures. Thanks for any input!
This is the one im looking into... Price is super low which makes me a bit worried.
Last edited by trungie; 19th September 2008 at 22:30.
The experts may want to chime in here (I've only had my M5 for a few months now), but here's my understanding. There are two potential categories of VANOS problems:
Noisy. This is the "diesel" sound and is related to inadequate oil pressure in the VANOS system shortly after startup. This issue usually resolves itself once the system is up to pressure and really doesn't hurt anything, it just sounds like crap.
Broken. VANOS is broken in some way... in other words it is, for whatever reason, incorrectly adjusting valve timing and causing inefficient operation of the engine.
Now, even if there was some magic that the dealer could do to mask condition 1 (noisy), this isn't your real concern. The real concern is condition 2 (broken), which fortunately manifests itself as rough idle, hesitation or low power, which hopefully will be reflected in a test drive.
A GT1 equipped shop should be able to exercise the VANOS system as well, so you could have it checked out during your PPI.
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No temp fix that i'm aware of, and incidence of complete failure, at least from what i've seen, is very low. The diagnosis rate of complete failure is significantly higher.
The experts may want to chime in here (I've only had my M5 for a few months now), but here's my understanding. There are two potential categories of VANOS problems:
Noisy. This is the "diesel" sound and is related to inadequate oil pressure in the VANOS system shortly after startup. This issue usually resolves itself once the system is up to pressure and really doesn't hurt anything, it just sounds like crap.
Broken. VANOS is broken in some way... in other words it is, for whatever reason, incorrectly adjusting valve timing and causing inefficient operation of the engine.
Now, even if there was some magic that the dealer could do to mask condition 1 (noisy), this isn't your real concern. The real concern is condition 2 (broken), which fortunately manifests itself as rough idle, hesitation or low power, which hopefully will be reflected in a test drive.
A GT1 equipped shop should be able to exercise the VANOS system as well, so you could have it checked out during your PPI.
As far as I'm concerned, the oil pressure related noise after startup is not really a "diesel" sound but more of a rattle that only lasts for a couple of seconds. Or actually, it's kind of like starting a cold diesel engine. The "ticking" diesel sound is a different thing though. A lot of M5s (including mine) sound like diesels most of the time at lower revs (especially when warm), only not as loud.
What is interesting is that there doesn't seem to be a consenus as to whether this sound is due to Vanos, lifters or a combination of both. Also, in many cases this is just accepted as being how most M5s end up sounding sooner or later. One would think that by now someone would have nailed down the exact cause of the M5 diesel sound, what can be done to fix it, whether something actually needs to be done to fix it and where to draw the line between innocent and malignant.
Last edited by Apeman; 20th September 2008 at 22:06.
Also, I don't find it completely unlikely that you could hide or diminish the Vanos sound temporarily by using some oil additives.
With my car, there were no ticking sounds whatsoever when I bought it. What's interesting is that the diesel-like ticking with a warm engine appeared very soon after my first oil change. One theory that has been suggested, don't know whether it's plausible or not, is that some crap got dislodged either with the oil change or with me driving the car harder than the previous owner and that this is now affecting lifters or whatever. Anyway, the mechanics at the authorized dealership said not to worry about it...
As far as I'm concerned, the oil pressure related noise after startup is not really a "diesel" sound but more of a rattle that only lasts for a couple of seconds. Or actually, it's kind of like starting a cold diesel engine. The "ticking" diesel sound is a different thing though. A lot of M5s (including mine) sound like diesels most of the time at lower revs (especially when warm), only not as loud.
What is interesting is that there doesn't seem to be a consenus as to whether this sound is due to Vanos, lifters or a combination of both. Also, in many cases this is just accepted as being how most M5s end up sounding sooner or later. One would think that by now someone would have nailed down the exact cause of the M5 diesel sound, what can be done to fix it, whether something actually needs to be done to fix it and where to draw the line between innocent and malignant.
I think the reason we haven't diagnosed the sound is that it doesn't appear to be an issue. Cars of all ages and all miles have the sound and it doesn't appear to cause any sorts of problems.
I think the reason we haven't diagnosed the sound is that it doesn't appear to be an issue. Cars of all ages and all miles have the sound and it doesn't appear to cause any sorts of problems.
d-
Well that's kind of the thing, there seems to be different opinions as to whether it will cause a problem or not... Since I have the sound, I definitely like to think my dealer is right in that it isn't a problem
For reference, here's a recording of my car (warm engine) from about a year ago, it hasn't changed much since then.
Well that's kind of the thing, there seems to be different opinions as to whether it will cause a problem or not... Since I have the sound, I definitely like to think my dealer is right in that it isn't a problem
For reference, here's a recording of my car (warm engine) from about a year ago, it hasn't changed much since then.
Linear Mode
