Hi, I am having this issue right now. My car had timing chain problem, which resulted in some aluminum metal filings got into the engine oil and circulating around the engine.
What can potentially happen? Which parts are more susceptible to damage by these aluminum filings?
The filings from the chain problem will not circulate through the engine oiling system, so the engine's health & lifecycle is probably not compromised much.
Metal particulate will fall harmlessly into the pan where they are very effectively blocked from entering the oiling system by the pickup tube screens and oil filter. The only moving part seeing this debris passing thru it is the oil pump & it can take some abuse.
The ultimate solution is to:
1) purchase a new lower pan gasket and remove the pan to wash it out using a solvent. Carefully torque the bolts upon reinstall, do not overtorque or they will strip.
2) change the engine oil and oil filter. Carefully extract debris from the oil canister assy with a super clean rag or paper towels upon removal of filter element.
PS: Step 1 will be helpful for oil pump health which may be seeing some larger particles. Step 2 is only precautionary, as the filtering system does it's job just fine, but could become overloaded with debris if you had lots of loose metal in the pan.
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Last edited by Lscman; 19th September 2008 at 18:43.
Hi, I am having this issue right now. My car had timing chain problem, which resulted in some aluminum metal filings got into the engine oil and circulating around the engine.
What can potentially happen? Which parts are more susceptible to damage by these aluminum filings?
Thanks
How much is "some" aluminum filings?
In 1,200,000 miles, I have only had something similar happen ONCE. A Porsche transaxle. The oil I drained was way too thick and was colored pure aluminum. I did the repair myself (only to find out it was a known factory defect a year later), and dismantled the entire transaxle. Synchros and all. Washed all parts until it they were CLEANER THAT CLEAN. Never had any residual problems.
All that said, while aluminum is soft (so it won't probably do much damage to any NON-aluminum parts ... I say "probably won't"), many parts in BMW engines are aluminum these days. All that is not good!
If it was just a "few" small "chips" it may be OK. BMWs used to have a magnet "glued" into the drain plugs ... to capture any metal chips that got into the oil (trans., diff., and engine), but a magnet won't pick up aluminum. And, small chips were picked up on them. Always. Quite a few after break-in, were caught.
So where are you? Well, I don't know whether it was covered under warranty (extended), or out of your pocket. To me, the difference is how much aluminum was found?
Since aluminum is soft, it probably wouldn't do much damage to metal parts, but it could get stuck on a sealing gasket (open and closing metal against a gasket) and create a leak (internal).
I would have a long discussion with the most knowledgable dealer guy and find out why they think it will be OK now. Find out if there is anything they can do to futher clean them out.
In short, your situation is probably the worst I have yet heard. Good luck.
__________________
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge."
I don't know how much filings were in the engine oil.
I had timing chain rattling, I went to a INDY and he can't do it because he need some special tools, but he flushed out the engine and replaced oil and filter. Then I drove <20km to the dealer gently. The dealer claimed there are quite a lot of metal filings inside, (I can't believe this because only 20km was driven) and recommended to either recondition the engine or new engine. I want to have cheapest fix and swap the car after it got fixed so I asked them to do the timing chain only.
Now 2 months later, we were waiting for the parts to arrive from Germany, after the timing chain got replaced, when dealer were testing the car, the whole engine bank 1 shut off, and lost compression. Dealer claimed that Vanos got clogged up by metal filing and caused the camshaft of exhaust valves to be jammed, and they think the valve are now bent. I checked with 4 other dealers, and every one says that a failed Vanos will not cause bent valve.
The engine is getting examined now for the actual damage.
I believe if some filing got in, it would be only very minor filings got in, and all the large pieces were all blocked out by filter for sure.
My question is even if the metal filing got into the engine oil, what would be the symptoms of the engine, would it die instantly, or will it slowly lose power and die slowly? From what has been said plus what I read, I believe it is a slow dying process, not sudden *****. Is there any way that the camshaft of the exhaust valves be jammed up other than improper timing of timing chain.
The scenario offered by the mechanic is unlikely. The aluminum worn off the engine block or heads by a loose timing chain can not find it's way to the vanos oiling system. It must first pass through an oil filter media which will effectively remove all particles over 10 microns. Do you realize how small that is? You can not feel it with your fingers and it will pass harmlessly beteen a sleeve bearing and crank journal. If a pound of metal was gound off and found it's way into the filter and it went into overload bypass, the cam chain wear would be massive and the engine would be trashed. I think something else is to blame, but it does sound as if you have serious issues.
__________________
Resolve never, screw genuine.
Last edited by Lscman; 20th September 2008 at 07:24.
I don't know how much filings were in the engine oil.
I had timing chain rattling, I went to a INDY and he can't do it because he need some special tools, but he flushed out the engine and replaced oil and filter. Then I drove <20km to the dealer gently. The dealer claimed there are quite a lot of metal filings inside, (I can't believe this because only 20km was driven) and recommended to either recondition the engine or new engine. I want to have cheapest fix and swap the car after it got fixed so I asked them to do the timing chain only.
Now 2 months later, we were waiting for the parts to arrive from Germany, after the timing chain got replaced, when dealer were testing the car, the whole engine bank 1 shut off, and lost compression. Dealer claimed that Vanos got clogged up by metal filing and caused the camshaft of exhaust valves to be jammed, and they think the valve are now bent. I checked with 4 other dealers, and every one says that a failed Vanos will not cause bent valve.
The engine is getting examined now for the actual damage.
I believe if some filing got in, it would be only very minor filings got in, and all the large pieces were all blocked out by filter for sure.
My question is even if the metal filing got into the engine oil, what would be the symptoms of the engine, would it die instantly, or will it slowly lose power and die slowly? From what has been said plus what I read, I believe it is a slow dying process, not sudden *****. Is there any way that the camshaft of the exhaust valves be jammed up other than improper timing of timing chain.
Mym05
You need to find a new dealer NOW. Your existing dealer clearly doesn't understand how VANOS works - VANOS adjusts the camshaft through a variety of degrees, none of which will damage the valves. Think about it - if it could adjust the cam to a point that it would bend valvestems wouldn't we ALL have bent valves?
Anyway, it is entirely feasible that a combination of issues (which would have to include a missing / damaged screen on the VANOS oil pickup) could cause your problem, but I doubt it.
You do sound like you have serious issues, but unless that timing chain jumped on the gears you shouldn't have bent valves.
The scenario offered by the mechanic is unlikely. The aluminum worn off the engine block or heads by a loose timing chain can not find it's way to the vanos oiling system. It must first pass through an oil filter media which will effectively remove all particles over 10 microns. Do you realize how small that is? You can not feel it with your fingers and it will pass harmlessly beteen a sleeve bearing and crank journal. If a pound of metal was gound off and found it's way into the filter and it went into overload bypass, the cam chain wear would be massive and the engine would be trashed. I think something else is to blame, but it does sound as if you have serious issues.
Guys-
This fellow is in Australia, where his dealer most likely screwed up the camshaft timing when they reassembled the motor and crunched the valves on Cylinder #1...they then found a VANOS error (duh, with the timing off yes there is an error)..they concocted a story that the Al flakes (which they noted to the owner) must have gotten into the vanos causing the vanos to 'lock up' and destroy the valved.
There is another thread on this.
He doesn't have the tech skills to argue with this crooked dealer (or ignorant) and any help/comments here or in his other threads would help
A
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