Vanos delete? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Jasoncrx · 26th October 2007, 17:10

I was looking around on CA's website and found that they offered a S62 vanos delete. IF your vanos does go out, is this a viable option for the street? Just curious, I haven't seen it discussed before.

ADA///M · 26th October 2007, 17:47

just discussed pretty recently

Vanos Block Off Kit

Dr Pooface · 26th October 2007, 17:48

Are you really a Master Tech?

Jasoncrx · 26th October 2007, 18:36

Dr. Pooface. Yes, I am a Master Tech who also understands that a great deal of cam adjustment is for emission reasons. This is more of a financial question as opposed to a functionality question. Would you rather spend $500 or $3000. Is the Vanos here just for low end <2500rpm, and for emissions?? Is the standard timing of the cams for high end, or is this where Vanos adjusts the cams? What needs to be answered is if Vanos effects the high rpms, or the low.

On the latest MB engines with adjustable valve timing there are 2 switchover points. On the engines from just a few years ago, we depended on an adjustable intake manifold, and did no timing changes in regards to the cams. Please do not question my knowledge until you understand the question.

grahame39m5 · 26th October 2007, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasoncrx

Dr. Pooface. Yes, I am Please do not question my knowledge until you understand the question.

Well said, I thought you were going to ask him if he really was a poo face

ADA///M · 26th October 2007, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasoncrx

Dr. Pooface. Yes, I am a Master Tech who also understands that a great deal of cam adjustment is for emission reasons. This is more of a financial question as opposed to a functionality question. Would you rather spend $500 or $3000. Is the Vanos here just for low end <2500rpm, and for emissions?? Is the standard timing of the cams for high end, or is this where Vanos adjusts the cams? What needs to be answered is if Vanos effects the high rpms, or the low.

On the latest MB engines with adjustable valve timing there are 2 switchover points. On the engines from just a few years ago, we depended on an adjustable intake manifold, and did no timing changes in regards to the cams. Please do not question my knowledge until you understand the question.

Read that link i posted and you will see its really not any more economical at all. As you would need ECU work.

I dont know specifics...but usually Vanos is for boosting lower/midrange power while keeping peak power. Removing it and you will lose that flexibility, ...what you lose depends how you would "set" the cams. You set/lock the timing in for whatever you want. You can make more low end or more top end, you just wont have both

. I dont know the best cam timing for this engine so i cannot tell you what would be best for what you wanted. I doubt most people here would know. You'd probably have to contact an engine builder familiar with the engine...maybe the one selling that product.

Its a trade off....no real benefit to not having it if you are not racing

Dr Pooface · 26th October 2007, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasoncrx

Please do not question my knowledge until you understand the question.

I'll do all the questioning I want to, thanks. Don't get your feathers ruffled.

Vanos delete is only good for race cars who stay in the upper rpms, have custom tuning, have custom cams, don't care about lumpy idle, don't care about emissions, and are worried about freeing up every hp they can from drivetrain losses. Doesn't seem too streetable to me, and I understand the question just fine thanks.

Judging by your name you're a honda guy as well? Vtec delete anyone...?

wilsodh · 26th October 2007, 18:57

Wonder what the parasitic loss is due to Vanos. I remember seeing a % somewhere a while back, but I don't remember what it was.

Dave

Jasoncrx · 26th October 2007, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Pooface

Vanos delete is only good for race cars who stay in the upper rpms, have custom tuning, have custom cams, don't care about lumpy idle, don't care about emissions, and are worried about freeing up every hp they can from drivetrain losses.

Have you deleted Vanos before? Is it going to be that extreme of a change, or does Vanos only adjust 10 degrees or so? Sorry, I don't have Vanos technical specs sitting in front of me.

I would guess if D/A or who ever did some programming for this it would be fine. You should be able to program in a Vanos adjustment of 0 throughout the rpm range along with throttle input. I don't think programming would be a huge issue, D/A should be able to answer this better.

mottati · 26th October 2007, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasoncrx

Have you deleted Vanos before? Is it going to be that extreme of a change, or does Vanos only adjust 10 degrees or so? Sorry, I don't have Vanos technical specs sitting in front of me.

I would guess if D/A or who ever did some programming for this it would be fine. You should be able to program in a Vanos adjustment of 0 throughout the rpm range along with throttle input. I don't think programming would be a huge issue, D/A should be able to answer this better.

You should try to contact someone at dinan, as they remove the vanos system from their daytona prototype race s62's. Those cars have a stand alone engine management system however. Dinan said (at a tour we did a year or so ago) that removing the vanos gets you about 25 hp from the parasitic losses, but he also said you would not want to do it on a street car. Case in point, they recently completed a z8 with the DP s62, but they kept the vanos with the solid lifter cams. The timing adjustment is more than 10 degrees, but i don't have my s62 technical reference in my office, so can't quote the exact number.

Dex1 · 26th October 2007, 19:26

I have driven my M5 with VANOS in the high-rpm position all the time, as it broke like this, position was stuck in the high-rpm-mode, about 6months ago. (Then I replaced the whole VANOS system with new one)

Car was less powerful at the lower rpm than my girlfriends Nissan Micra 1.2L, and it started to produce power around 4000rpm, which seems to be the point where the VANOS system actually does the work normally.

Lower rpm 0->4000rpm (about) and then high rpm setting 4000-7000rpm?

Just to clear it out, I DON'T KNOW if it's like that, but it seems like that according to my experiences during that vanos breakup.

My opinion, Vanos is one of the main things that makes BMW V8 special. It shouldn't be removed until car is used only for drag racing or something...