Ethanol E85 M5?? - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 05:06 AM Thread Starter
M Cinco
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Ethanol E85 M5??

Anyone seen one yet? A conversion kit I mean, Ethanol is 105 octane and although it burns a bit less efficient, it is a cooler burn allowing for advance of timing maybe motivating vanos to new heights?? just an idea i guess... I've read that the car would need a larger capacity fuel system possibly?? You would need larger injectors, able to flow at least 50% more gas than normal seeing as how a gallon of ethanol contains roughly 80-85% of the power contained in a gallon of gas, maybe a retune of the fuel map if the injector capability is high enough.. but a new pump wouldnt hurt either... fpr maybe?... Anyway some of the engineering companies need to look into that, with the price of gas these days that would be sweet to burn corn!! or wood based ethanol... I'd like to see this thread somewhere.. A real "Green M5"..... Later

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Last edited by M Cinco; 18th September 2007 at 05:09 AM.
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post #2 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 06:48 AM
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I'm pretty involved in the neon forums (don't laugh). One guy converted his neon to e85 simply by running proportionally larger injectors. The computer assumed stock size injectors so the pulsewidth was modulated according to the AF's that the computer was computing with, only with the larger injectors, a lot more fuel came out.

Here is the funny part. You get much less MPG than you do with 87 or 93 octane even. But after the math you are paying the same per mile. So effectively you have reduced the range of your vehicle, made it so you have a harder time finding a gas station than a diesel and required your fuel filters to be replaced (ethanol supercleans all fuel system components).

Now, I'm not trying to compare a neon to an M5, but the concept and probably application with be very similar.

Also, ethonal actually costs much more than regular gas. The farmers have to plant the corn (using fuel powered equipment) then they harvest and process the corn (fuel again) then it is shipped to an ethonal plant (fuel again) then it is turned into ethonal. The government subsidizes this which makes it cheaper for the consumer. Plus all crop prices go up (not just corn, since more farmers are growing corn as opposed to say, wheat, which makes wheat go up).

Anyway, yes you are technically using less resorces by running on e85, but really I bet it's a wash in the end.

Bob

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post #3 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by REKIII View Post
I'm pretty involved in the neon forums (don't laugh). One guy converted his neon to e85 simply by running proportionally larger injectors. The computer assumed stock size injectors so the pulsewidth was modulated according to the AF's that the computer was computing with, only with the larger injectors, a lot more fuel came out.

Here is the funny part. You get much less MPG than you do with 87 or 93 octane even. But after the math you are paying the same per mile. So effectively you have reduced the range of your vehicle, made it so you have a harder time finding a gas station than a diesel and required your fuel filters to be replaced (ethanol supercleans all fuel system components).

Now, I'm not trying to compare a neon to an M5, but the concept and probably application with be very similar.

Also, ethonal actually costs much more than regular gas. The farmers have to plant the corn (using fuel powered equipment) then they harvest and process the corn (fuel again) then it is shipped to an ethonal plant (fuel again) then it is turned into ethonal. The government subsidizes this which makes it cheaper for the consumer. Plus all crop prices go up (not just corn, since more farmers are growing corn as opposed to say, wheat, which makes wheat go up).

Anyway, yes you are technically using less resorces by running on e85, but really I bet it's a wash in the end.

Bob
+1 Bob.

These "bio-fuels" are a complete distraction in my book.

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post #4 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 03:32 PM
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Brazil is one of the leading exporters of Ethanol, which they make from sugar cane, which is planted on areas where rain-forest used to grow. Each worker has to produce abt 4500lbs of cane each day, if they harvest less they don't get paid. So ethanol is very environment friendly - which is bullsh-t.
And Ehtanol in an M5 - it will increase the fuel consumption with at least 30%.
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post #5 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 04:20 PM
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Brazil is one of the leading exporters of Ethanol, which they make from sugar cane, which is planted on areas where rain-forest used to grow. Each worker has to produce abt 4500lbs of cane each day, if they harvest less they don't get paid. So ethanol is very environment friendly - which is bullsh-t.
And Ehtanol in an M5 - it will increase the fuel consumption with at least 30%.
Amen. So the argument that bio-fuels are C02-neutral is cr*p! They are grown on ground that would have been used for some other crop or natural forest so they don't absorb any more CO2 from the atmosphere (without even considering the impact of farming them as mentioned above).

They're also less economical so your overall CO2 emissions go up and they generate a false sense of smugness that deflects from the real need to reduce emissions per mile.

Step backwards if you ask me.

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post #6 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 04:26 PM
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Agreeed...junk science capitalizing on the "fact" that it will decrease our reliance on foreign oil. If we weren't in Iraq I don't think ethanol ever would have gotten off the ground.
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post #7 of 34 Old 18th September 2007, 05:51 PM
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Ethanol (alcohol) is probably corrosive for alusil block. Aluminum is largely removed from E85 fuel system and engine designs.

I would stay FAR away.

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post #8 of 34 Old 16th September 2012, 03:54 PM
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Any experiences running e85 in e39 m5? This "new" bio ethanol is booming in EU at moment... The price per litre is 1.10 euros against 1.75euros per litre normal fuel. I know the consumption is at least 30 % more. I have been running my e28 pure ethanol now about 3000km. Only thing that have been done, is increased fuel pressure. however It runs a bit lean after all.. Something must be done still... Our shopping cart, Seat Ibiza 1.4i 2003 is running pure e85 with bio adapter. Overall I save about 50euros every 1000km. More money to - Pepsi!!

Also have heard some e34 m5 running on ethanol as well... Without serious issues...

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post #9 of 34 Old 16th September 2012, 05:58 PM
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It's just fuel. Of course it will run fine after the $1500(usd) custom engine mapping + what ever cost for larger fuel injectors and replacement of incompatible rubber/plastic components.

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Do you think the kinetic energy (KE), of an object, can be stated mathematically as being equal to half the mass (of the object) multiplied by the square of the object's velocity (KE=(1/2)m*v^2)?
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....no.
physics is hard.

Do you even science!?
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post #10 of 34 Old 16th September 2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
It's just fuel. Of course it will run fine after the $1500(usd) custom engine mapping + what ever cost for larger fuel injectors and replacement of incompatible rubber/plastic components.

Yeah, but in theory +35 % oversized injectors would do the trick... Or the piggybag that continuers the injectors opening time... This all can be done by mapping the ecu as well...

I am just curious if someone is running their m5 with e85 nowdays.
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