BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

EDC rebuild update

117K views 558 replies 85 participants last post by  AseanAero 
#1 · (Edited)
A few people have been asking me what's going on with this so I thought I'd update everyone

I was sick to death of this on-going EDC drama so a couple of months ago I started to seriously research a solution. After much searching I found a specialist suspension company who had the ability, but more to the point had the will to help us. These guys have many many years of experience with all manner of road and race suspension, they specialise in rebuilding old Ferrari and Lamborghini shocks amongst other things, and the boss is a good guy which is so important in these situations

Bottom line is that he's willing to help us. He currently has 2 front and 2 rear units in pieces and he's sourcing all of the necessary seals and gas sacs. They have the ability to manufacture their own seals if necessary so he's not anticipating any problems. There's nothing complex in the units and he's quite confident he can turn these around for us. Rebuild units would come totally refurbed, repainted and would be tested on their suspension dyno before being released. This is not just a hydraulics company, this is a bona fide suspension specialist who has all of these facilities in house, blast cabinets, dyno etc etc

The plan is the same as it always was, he'll hold a set of refurbed units in stock, people will buy them from him and pay a deposit which they will get back when they return their own units which will be refurbed for the next person

Target price is £100 per rear leg and £150 per front leg inc. VAT :cool:

I should be able to update you again next week. We will need to get him all of the blown units we have as there will be occasions where a solenoid or hardened shaft is too damaged to re-use so he has to salvage parts from another leg. Having said that, they can source the solenoids direct and manufacture their own rods if necessary but it would put the price up dramatically so while there are so many blown units available they might as well be recycled

More info soon :)
 
See less See more
#380 ·
Just spoke to Jon, he's getting details and pricing together this weekend hopefully, he's promised me an e-mail on Sunday after which I'll put it all together in a new post. Rebuilt units will now be supplied from Jon with new bump rubbers, or "ADDITIONAL SHOCK ABSORBER" as BMW describe them, for that's what they do, they are an essential element and need to be in as good condition as the legs so they will be supplied new with rebuilt leg, possibly with new plastic boots pre-fitted too

Update soon :)
 
#383 ·
I suppose the current exchange rates have something to do with the cost increase in EDC units in the US. While that seems like it could apply to the 20% increase in costs on the fronts, I don't see how that'd be the case with the 90% increase in cost on the rears.

Maybe BMW has started taking clues from Sony on how replacement parts pricing should be.
 
#385 ·
Was just wondering if there had been any update regarding the availability/pricing/wait times for the dampers?
It's just i'm off to the 'Ring in May and would very much like to have a new set of dampers all round if they'll be available.

And once again, good on you guys for all the hard work you've put in :thumbsup:
 
#387 ·
Hi guys, I'm a newbie in urgent need of new front dampers. May I ask if there are any updates on availability or price? There seem to be an awful lot of people waiting on these, I hope the guys involved feel like heroes!
 
#389 ·
Hi Cyrus,

Thank you for the updates on the EDCs, things are looking good for those who want to keep the cars OE, and there's a lot of respect for EDC on the forum. Sorry to go off thread but... I was looking back at some of your older postings and saw that you considered alternatives before this option came up. I need a solution urgently, and Farrell has said that the rebuilds are not yet ready for customers like me :crying2:. And there may still be longevity issues.

I need an alternative and I would consider being the "guinea pig" :1zhelp: previously referred to for a coilover system for instance. Do you mind if I pm you with some specifics?

Cheers, Anwar
 
#391 ·
My car is now hitting around 4000-5000 miles with these dampers.

That's longer than some brand new BMW dampers.

You guys can wait until I have done 10,000 - 25,000 miles but it will be a long long time until that happens!

My car is now only going to be used on the weekends as I have a daily car now (brand new Audi....deisel).

If those that don't want to pay BMW prices and then also are afraid the rebuilt dampers will not be as good then I'd suggest you go buy some KW Variant 2 coilovers. You will not be dissapointed.
 
#392 ·
I have to admit, i would be happy to take a set of rebuilt dampers now, mainly because all 4 of mine are shot and the thing handles like a boat in heavy seas with it on the P setting. S firms things up a bit, but not enough for my liking.
As i have mentioned before, if people are looking for more testing time for the dampers, i'm happy to pay for and fit a set for my trip to the 'Ring and Europe in May. The dampers would get around 4000 miles done on them in about 2 weeks, including numerous laps of the 'Ring.
Otherwise, i will wait for them to become readily available, i don't particularly want to put aftermarket suspension on as i'd like to keep the car resonably standard
 
#393 · (Edited)
Most EDC dampers that are not supplied faulty from BMW last an average
of 50-60 k miles in my experience.
Its up to owners to decide what they feel is a tested product.
Maybe a set fitted to the white 3.8 that is owned by on of Bob Harpers
guys could be a way to long term test.

Have had one faulty BMW O/E damper in 25 dampers fitted over 8 yrs.
Changed one under warranty last week.

I hope they "we" are on the brink of a breakthrough for these infernal fronts.:)
I dont' see £900 plus per damper as even remotely sustainable for many.

The delay in putting the rebuilt dampers to market gives me faith in the product
longterm.
:applause:
Farrell
 
#394 ·
Maybe having a better insight as to exactly how these dampers are rebuilt and what is changed/upgraded in the process would give a better indication to those that understand these things?

I have been to Sportsline and seen enough to convince me -

- brand new damper rods
- new bearings
- new bushes
- uprated seals which are said to be much stronger than BMW

On top of this the dampers are tested on a dyno at various speeds including speeds which are just not going to occur on the road for that period of time and they still don't leak.

Given that there are quite a few people out there with failed or very tired dampers who are willing to take them at this point knowing that endurance testing has not been done, I would say they should be given them as this will give us an even larger amount of dampers being tested.

While I'd agree that the dampers should not be made available until full tesing is done I feel that this may be a little unrealistic as we could be waiting quite some years.

Jon comes accross as the kind of guy who will address any problems if they occur. The only expense to the owners may be that they will have to remove their dampers.

The other thing that fills me with confidence is that Jon also rebuilds many other dampers from various exoctic cars of which some have EDC also. I have seen the amount of dampers that come in from various other car clubs so he obviously knows what he is doing.

Sal
 
#399 · (Edited)
Maybe having a better insight as to exactly how these dampers are rebuilt and what is changed/upgraded in the process would give a better indication to those that understand these things?

I have been to Sportsline and seen enough to convince me -

- brand new damper rods
- new bearings
- new bushes
- uprated seals which are said to be much stronger than BMW

On top of this the dampers are tested on a dyno at various speeds including speeds which are just not going to occur on the road for that period of time and they still don't leak.

Given that there are quite a few people out there with failed or very tired dampers who are willing to take them at this point knowing that endurance testing has not been done, I would say they should be given them as this will give us an even larger amount of dampers being tested.

Sal
Hi Sal

I'm with Reg on this one. I previously had concerns about rod "ovalising" etc but re-reading this I would be happy to contribute to the pool of test knowledge and add some miles to what is known about these shocks. They would get everyday use, with some fast-road work (and my wife's stomach is the ideal comparison tool - EDC is the only ride which never made her feel sick - which of course means I can drive faster when she's in it!). Seriously though I'm a fairly thoughtful (anal?!) driver and would give these things a good critique. Of course I'll pay for fitting (I'd do it myself but neither time nor garage currently), top mounts, springs and pan rubbers.

I've got to do something soon though, as my front end bounces like an old Jag! All the better if I can do my little bit to help as well... If they go kaput I'll use the train for a few weeks, or get 540 struts off a scrapie!! (just kidding)

Anwar
 
#395 · (Edited)
It is a good thing that when the rebuilts come to market they should be a dependable product :applause:. EDC suspension has previously enhanced and spoiled my enjoyment of this car - on the one hand its body control over north wales crests and dips was stunning:thumbsup:, on the other I was constantly inhibited by the knowledge of their fragility. And that was at £450 per unit. £900 is just not on for the miles I intend to do:grrrrr:.

If the rebuillts are good I may retrofit them in the future but I need a solution now. GeorgeK did a neat job, and I'm giving that or Birds some thought. Cyrus, you said KW can tailor shocks to an individual requirement. I'm a bit concerned about dropping 25+mm off the ride height of a car that is already a little short of suspension travel. I'm sorry to be a pain, can I ask asking if it's possible to keep the standard height without going to variant 3's?
 
#397 ·
It is a good thing that when the rebuilts come to market they should be a dependable product :applause:. EDC suspension has previously enhanced and spoiled my enjoyment of this car - on the one hand its body control over north wales crests and dips was stunning:thumbsup:, on the other I was constantly inhibited by the knowledge of their fragility. And that was at £450 per unit. £900 is just not on for the miles I intend to do:grrrrr:.

If the rebuillts are good I may retrofit them in the future but I need a solution now. GeorgeK did a neat job, and I'm giving that or Birds some thought. Cyrus, you said KW can tailor shocks to an individual requirement. I'm a bit concerned about dropping 25+mm off the ride height of a car that is already a little short of suspension travel. I'm sorry to be a pain, can I ask asking if it's possible to keep the standard height without going to variant 3's?
Birds will supply you with dinan suspension which will probably be too low for you and I have enough feedback to suggest it may be a little too soft for you.

Your better off going with the Eibach/Bilstein or Koni/H&R setups that I've been supplying to members on here.

It's essentially 535i uprated suspension just like what the Hartge suspension was.

The KW suspension will not have the suspension travel your looking for and getting a custom set built will cost alot of money and is not a quick solution.

Just bare in mind that all of the above options will be more expensive than the rebuilt dampers and given that you liked the EDC setup I would consider the EDC rebuilds.

The only reason my EDC dampers initially failed is because I didn't fit them myself and never saw that the bumpstops were turning to dust which caused the failures.

Sal
 
#396 ·
Testing

Hi all.
First, I'd like to thank all the people who've put a lot time into sorting out EDC repairs.
:clap:

I would like to add a voice to D_T_W's position. Like D_T_W, my E34 540i LE "handles like a boat in heavy seas", but unlike his car, switching between S & P makes no difference at all. THEY ARE DEAD.
:crying:
My car is all but undriveable.

My 350,000+km 1986 Toyota Hi-Lux Diesel Dual-Cab is my only alternative. :1zhelp:

While I appreciate Farrel's position that "delay in putting the rebuilt dampers to market gives me faith in the product longterm", there is an alternate view. The more people using rebuilt struts / shocks, the more likely any problems will be found. My car covers 400km every week & gets driven over 20kms of shocking Aussie dirt roads every day. If you want a "give 'em hell testbed", I can deliver it !

I'm looking down the barrel of spending close to US$3000.00 just to replace both fronts. Frankly, I'm willing to risk spending around 1/4 of that to try a solution.

Have Leda / London Mike set any parameters on what constitutes a successful test ?

e.g. how many more cars will need to be running for how long, before a decision is made to go to production ?

Does Leda have anything like the bods to cope with the deluge of rebuild requests that will come as soon as they say OK ? As others have indicated, the potential market must be huge.

Has Leda considered licensing their solution to overseas companies so international bods can stop paying horrendous freight prices to get their shocks repaired in the UK ? It's basically money for R&D if a suitable licence agreement can be signed up.

Once I buy a new pair, I will have spare pair to play with. After all, what drove Leda to find a solution to the problem was the cost/benefit of repair versus buying new. Now that it's obvious that a solution is possible, a somewhat smaller cost/benefit now exists to recreate the solution in other countries, to remove the international freight cost to & from the UK.

I don't want to put a damper on the celebration, but some of us are really hurting.

Regards,

Reg.
 
#398 ·
Reg,

the rebuilds are being done by Sportsline suspension and not Leda.

The question of what constitutes a successful test is a good one.

I would like to know what people consider this to be.

I get the feeling that some are looking for 20,000 mile tests which is simply unrealistic. Do we test just one set this much or do we test loads this much?

How many people are going to drive their cars 20k+ miles in a short period of time?

You'd be waiting years for this.

I think a more realsitic approach is that a few people test them. I have already done a reasonable amount (4000+ miles), one other is willing to do this much in a very short period of time.

The other area that is not being taken into consideration is that dampers are being tested on a dyno under some extreme high speeds for long periods of time and they are not leaking.

On one occassion Jon was testing a set of dampers at such high speed that his employees left the building as they though they were going to blow up! Can you imagine the destruction an exploding damper would cause!! Anyway, they didn't blow up or leak.

I'd be genuinely interested in knowing how much testing BMW did and how they did it and on how many cars until their released the EDC dampers. This would be the ultimate bench mark?
 
#401 ·
Hi
My position as owner.
I have spent somewhere in the region £4k maintaining damper struts.
I am completely aware of costs to run this system so I sympathise with all of you.

My position as someone who pulls these cars to bits & puts them back together for owners every day.
What about the fitment ?
How many of you have with your own hands serviced the front EDC dampers ?
How many of you have a 45mm socket to remove the hub nut or the
prodigeous torque figures reqd to lock the nut in place ?
You won't find the wrench with the reqd torque range off the shelf !

The process of replacement requires removal of the hub & bearing assembly.
How many goes do you think you get pulling & re-seating a hub bearing from one
stub axle to another before it fails ? ( check the cost of this part)
A few of the parts in the service of this item are consumables.

How many of you are going to be happy potentially stripping & rebuilding one damper after another
as the process is still in test.
How much money can you afford to pay someone doing this for you if you can't do it yourself ?

At this point, there is no warranty & tbh, I can't see how you warrant something until you know how long it will last.
BOGE tested the dampers for millions of cylces exactly the way all o/e manufacturers test their parts.
Yes, I have worked with Boge.
Highly Accelerated Life Test is stimulation of failure, not simulation.

So then.
Is 20k miles acceptable as lifeing of the part ?
Has it been reached ?
How many cycles have the dampers undergone ?
What is the warranty ?
What if the dampers fail prematurely ?
Who pays for fit & refit ?

The concept of rebuilt dampers is good, but lets not tarnish the good work done so far.
 
#402 · (Edited)
During my testing I was deeply annoyed with repeated fit and refit after continuous failures caused by another failed part on my car.

The amount of time, fuel and effort spent was horrendous and it's not an experience I'd like to go through again.

So I totally understand where your coming from Farrell.

The question is that how long until we are happy with this product/service?

If we are going to have to wait for individual sets to be tested for 20k+ miles then I'm afraid this is not going to get off the ground anytime soon. I would estimate 2 years at the least based on the fact that a large number of testers run their cars for atleast 10,000 per year and give continuous feedback like I am doing.

Whether or not this rebuild service is offered to the public is something that Sportsline will decide. Not us.
Whether or not people go for it is down to them as individuals.

I think it's good that the possible problems are highlighted by someone like yourself who has a thorough understanding of this subject.

As I have said before, if people are not confident with this service then go buy some new BMW dampers or look for an alternative.

There are plenty of good high quality alternatives out there which Birds UK proved in the past with their e34 535i Hartge suspension system applied to the M5.

Replicating the Hartge suspension is not hard. You can get very close if not better if the right parts are used.

There are quite a few members using KW V2's, Eibach/Bilstein, Koni/H&R setups with Eibach adjustable ARB setups and are extremely happy with the results with the understanding that it will be different to EDC.

Sal
 
#403 ·
It's amazing how anxious people become when the finishing line appears to be in sight .

Yes , we'd all like rebuilt EDC dampers at a fraction of the price of BMW prices .

As Sal rightly mentions , Sportsline will decide when they wish to put their reputation on the line and make these rebuilt dampers available to the general public .

This board is extremely fortunate to have access to Farrell , a person who is experienced in the field of mechanical engineering and provides an insight rarely found outside of specialist circles .

In the meantime , guinea pigs should relax and form an orderly queue !

Once again , thanks to London Mike and Sal for embarking on this mission . Let's hope that you aren't pressured into rushing anything through !
 
#405 ·
My my, this is a popular thread today... :D

By way of an update, the reason that this hasn't kicked off yet is not because there is a problem as such, I am still waiting for final costings and info from Jon so I can create the new thread to open it up for everyone. As well as Sal's, my rebuilt rears have been running withough fault now for 6+ months and there is another complete set of 4 legs also running around on a dealers car, also working properly

As well as all of Sals comments, I'd repeat again something that I've mentioned in the past, that the top seal assemblies that Jon is using far exceed the specification of the top seals supplied in the new EDC legs from BMW

Just a little bit more patience now from everyone, but the wait will be worth it :)
 
#411 · (Edited)
the top seal assemblies that Jon is using far exceed the specification of the top seals supplied in the new EDC legs from BMW

Just a little bit more patience now from everyone, but the wait will be worth it :)
Good luck to you all. I can't wait any longer. My car is driving me nuts and I can't see any kind of date when deliveries might commence. Shame really, could have saved me lots of money :crying2: and put 20,000km a year of driving / testing on poorly maintained Aussie back roads. Driving that would certainly have been a good test of what Sportsline have achieved.

Maybe next time !

Reg.
 
#406 ·
Gotta say that my front EDC's are still original and gave out not too long ago at about 160,000 miles or so.

Rears are still original and aren't shot yet.

Would love to get mine rebuilt. Certainly don't feel like dropping the $ on new ones, especially after the latest price hike in the last couple of months.
 
#407 ·
None of these rebuilt sets have done any laps at the Ring have they?

I think if we had at least one car that did several sessions at the North Loop, that would provide some folks (including myself!) with some assurance.

Not that the Nürburgring is going to be an accurate depiction of everybody's different driving style, but it's, obviously, some seriously punishing elements that would surely put the rebuilt units through their paces.

Just my $0.02.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top