I am getting the itch (as I am sure some of you have been as well) to extract more HP from the S38 beast and having had experience with turbos on 86-7 Buick Grand Nationals, I would like to take the TURBO route instead of SC!
Here's where I have run into total dead ends... no one makes kits for S38 application. Outside of the turbo that Dinan had built for a very short peiod of time, nothing is out there, other than custom kits = $$$$$$$$$!
If I can get 5 people to commit to purchasing a kit or partial kit (whatever your fancy), he will put this project on the fast track and get working on the casting of the turbo manifold! This is kinda how the breakdown of the kit components (keep in mind this is a rough estimate as the final cost cannot be projected w/o actually doing the work):
$275 - WG + DP
$675 - complete exhaust
$800 - Turbo (you can request specific turbo to match your goal)
$1300 - IC (air/water) = Stage 2
$700 - Turbo exhaust manifold
I believe he mentioned that most hoses will be supplied as well, while others might need to be customized. Also, injectors would be extra or you can get your own. Due to high compression of these engines, thicker head gaskets will be available as well to help lower the compression so as to be able to boos past 6-7psi safely. This setup would allow for about 16-18hp/# boost increase over stock which translates to about 95-120 RWHP! Keep in mind, this is all on stock internals, without a rebuild. You want higer boost = rebuild with all stock internals with the addition of forged pistons, which Todd is working on with JE to develope lower compression pistons.
As for the tuning, they are working with the Megasquirt standalone system which might be available, but as of right now, you would need to seek your own tuner. I have located several reputable (in the BMW community) tuners round the country who would be willing to provide tuning services for our application.
Please let me know of the interest level out here so I can determine if this is a feasible option or not (I hope it is!) The commitment would be 25% down with the remainder due @ deliver or something to that effect.
im getting tcd stuff for my M30 project. I wouldnt put boost through an S38, its high strung enough as it is, let me know how long it lasts....My suggestion to you is do something like myself, either buy an E30 and drop the M30 in to boost, or pick up a 535 and boost. That M30 is so strong, people make 400+ whp on the stock internals with room to spare. If you swap pistons and step up some of the other turbo components people have made 600 whp. If you must turbo your S38, atleast tear it down and put some low compression pistons in, and basic rebuild parts as well as a MLS headgasket. Even then the ITB's would probably make things very tricky..
hello peeps...
I just got done talking to a couple more fabricators and tuners, and it id starting to look good! One is for an SC kit and the other for a Turbo kit I meet with both within the month of January and will have a better idea then. If this goes well, lets just say that the company is nationwide with installers available pretty much within driving distance for anyone (within USA)and it would be a complete bolt on P'nP kit...with tubular manifolds for the turbo it!
HAHAHAHA... I am loving this!
redl1nerpm: I think that is a sweet way to getting big power...and reliable big power at that with the TCD systems! I have been nothing but impressed by it and what I have read...as well as having talked to Todd, the kit appears as solid as Todd, and TCD stands behind their product!
BTW, Todd is a standup guy and just confirmed with him that 5 COMMITMENTS will get this project rolling... hence, people, let pony up and get commited
All Im saying is the S38 is high strung enough, and significantly increasing the power will probably take its toll on the engine. After I see a few other people do it and there engine last, Id consider it..
Firstly, I must apologise for what I say next as it is not positive.
I have serious reservations about how simple this all appears to be.
It is not simple & it looks very vague in that it appears to have not been properly thought out.
This bolt on thing.
The cams are wrong lift & duration.
The compression ratio can be lowered but the gasket would would be as thick as a Big Mac (relatively speaking.)
The only positive aspect is that you intend to cast a manifold.
Tubular manifold will be a disaster.
Will this manifold accomodate the EGR system.
Location of the charge cooler, be it water or air.
Cooling efficiency Reserve within the cooling system ?
I think you would need to instrument a vehicle & run it on a rolling road or engine dyno time & conduct an air to boil test to understand the cooling systems ability to manage the heat.
(Thermostat jacked open & engine fully loaded at wot)
Is there going to be a vehicle donated to develop this & the engine management calibration ?
Pick your own injectors...
Well you might as well pick your favourite colour.
Does duty cycle & dwell @ idle / fast idle a factor here or is emissions not a consideration for bolt on kits.
At this point, I see a lot of parts & good intentions but not much else consolidating the package into a cohesive kit.
Theres a lot to still consider here not least of which seems to be how very cheap it is & unrealistic.
If you had turned round & said, $6-10,000 a kit, I would have a very different view.
Putting down money with this little information would scare the life out of me.
Good input Farrell...
Love this forum discussion boards since I can take these thoughts to the different people and see what they have to say to address these concerns and/or their ways to overcome these. This is a gold mine, so please keep this discussion alive.
BTW, only taken as negative if I allow myself to do so. I am not the expert or experienced in these cars are hence do NOT take anything personally. I don't know what I don't know, which is why I look for people with the experiences and the know-how
Apart from all that ( and darren being VERY right on this plus being very easy to believe for he has actually learned for this) I reckon that a turbo has nothing to do with any M car, just for historical reasons only.. ( yes I know about the Turbo F1 cars)
But that 's only my opinion, will be very interested in the practical results of this 'project' , please prove me wrong..
Regards and good luck,
Wout
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Hello Tirefryer
Can understand the itch, not the cure. The beauty of the M's is....that all that power is achieved atmospherically.
But if it keeps itching...you gotta scratch..but do it in a way that won't leave nasty marks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redl1nerpm
.. I wouldnt put boost through an S38, its high strung enough as it is, let me know how long it lasts....pick up a 535 and boost. That M30 is so strong, people make 400+ whp on the stock internals with room to spare.
Good remark here by redl1ner, as was the opinion of Alpina with the first blown e28 5 they preferred the stock 12 valve engine as well.
And remember: no ping sensor, low US octane fuel and boost...
Good luck on your quest.And keep up the positive attitude. ..I have a 2nd car-a beautiful '90 535i 5 speed in pristine condition(just waiting for a TCD kit) to trade for your M5.
Firstly, I must apologise for what I say next as it is not positive.
I have serious reservations about how simple this all appears to be.
It is not simple & it looks very vague in that it appears to have not been properly thought out.
This bolt on thing.
The cams are wrong lift & duration.
The compression ratio can be lowered but the gasket would would be as thick as a Big Mac (relatively speaking.)
The only positive aspect is that you intend to cast a manifold.
Tubular manifold will be a disaster.
Will this manifold accomodate the EGR system.
Location of the charge cooler, be it water or air.
Cooling efficiency Reserve within the cooling system ?
I think you would need to instrument a vehicle & run it on a rolling road or engine dyno time & conduct an air to boil test to understand the cooling systems ability to manage the heat.
(Thermostat jacked open & engine fully loaded at wot)
Is there going to be a vehicle donated to develop this & the engine management calibration ?
Pick your own injectors...
Well you might as well pick your favourite colour.
Does duty cycle & dwell @ idle / fast idle a factor here or is emissions not a consideration for bolt on kits.
At this point, I see a lot of parts & good intentions but not much else consolidating the package into a cohesive kit.
Theres a lot to still consider here not least of which seems to be how very cheap it is & unrealistic.
If you had turned round & said, $6-10,000 a kit, I would have a very different view.
Putting down money with this little information would scare the life out of me.
Farrell
thanks farrell i knew youd help out. If you wanna fast 5 or just a fast bimmer in general buy something with the M30 engine to boost, or get a E36 m3 atleast I know people boost those with pretty good results. I can only imagine the thousands of hours they put into designing the S38 motor so it would put out what it does. The guys at tcd make a great kit for the M30 engine on a 535. Or you can do what Im doing, put that M30 engine into an E30 and have a very fast little car... What I do know, is there is a very good reason there isnt a turbo kit readily available for our cars. If you havent seen the guy with 1000 hp in his e34 M5 you need to check it out. But that would take very extensive modifications and probably double what you payed for you M..
Last edited by redl1nerpm; 4th January 2006 at 08:46.
Turbo kit for S38...any takers?
..I have a 2nd car-a beautiful '90 535i 5 speed in pristine condition(just waiting for a TCD kit) to trade for your M5.
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