stuka

Wasn't trying to impress, but recounting from my own experiences how badly most repaired cars are painted and repaired. That being the case, why spend the time and energy to try to figure out where the work was done when there are examples of cars without any work done?

I have to be general because it is for my best interest to not be specific (the U.S. is very sue happy, after all) about whom it was where things like this occured(s). I would just say that it happens more than you would think, in LA at least. The safest bet in LA would be Spectrum, and I don't have any affiliation with them. But they are one of the better ones that I have seen. Most other are pretty subpar. And even they don't chemincally treat the panels and shell.

So, if most shops in LA are this subpar, why bother figuring whether the job was done right when you can find one where you don't need to even worry about these issues?


You and a few others seem insistent that M5's with repaints can be just as good as one that has not seen the inside of a bodyshop. But my point is, when the car is trading at 15 to 20K, and most owners have insurance, do you think that they cared or know how their cars are repaired?

And about being in the insurance industry, there is something called "diminished value." And any car that has had any paint and body work done trades for less than one without, because the market said so.

I am really not sure what you are trying to say? That most M5 owners that have had accidents in their cars use shops that properly prep and paint their cars? That most M5 owners have their cars repainted at shops like yous? And just how many shops in LA do you think does this type of work that insurance is willing to pay for? Most bodyshops have to fight with the adjusters as it is. And some insurance companies are a pain when it comes to supplements.

So, again, why bother with the extra headaches when I can just find one that hadn't had any issues like that?

__________________
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG, killed by Savage BMW
03 Turbo SY/Black, gone
03 GT2 SY/Black
88 325is Black/Cinnamon

stuka

Both the Turbo and the GT2 are yellow, so I think yellow cars are cool.

I am surprised that you got sunroof, I barely clear with helmet on when I had my non sunroof M3.

Toddzilla

My seat sits a fair bit lower than stock, so I have good clearance.

I took the m5 to the track last weekend for fun and I barely fit with my helmet on.

__________________
1991 M5
2001 M3

Sebring NL

Stuka.

Maybe you need to broaden your horizon. Is every M5 you look at an LA car?
Your main arguement seems to shift from "aftermarket paint is bad" to " I live in LA and have had bad inside experience with the bodyshops there"

Its the same as saying : You guys shouldn't wear washed T-shirts. My wife has washed several shirts in many years and they all came out too small..

I know most of the US based shops are crap.

I understand you don't want a car those monkeys worked on.


But you seem to remain of the opinion that aftermarket paintwork is inferior to OEM . It simply is not.


For instance, a car like Farrell's, has been properly resprayed. Anybody who would NOT buy that car because of its paintwork would be declared a fool IMO.


There are cars that you will come across that have had work which cannot be spotted, you can count on that.



Also, the stuff about cleaning the parts before spraying etc, remember what I was trying to explain about how a car factory works. Like insurance companies, they run on money. BMW does about 462 Billion per year. They decide to get decent paintwork because it will pay of in their reputation. However, when I look at a new E60, I see paint I don;t like. Its OEM. And its crap.

Have you ever measured the OEM paint on a never-repainted car in thickness?

I respect that you want a car which has never been repainted. I just can't fully respect the reasons and the fact that you are trying to convince others that aftermarket paintwork is not good. Believe me, once you own an M5, paintwork will be the most transparant of your cost issues.


You keep repeating your previous comments, which is fine by me. I just don't want to participate in discussions where the other party cannot be convinced. This will lead to disrespect or my Mr Hyde hat to come on, which I left safely in the E39 section.

stuka

OK, so you agree that most U.S. based shops are crap. So, if you were looking for a used car, wouldn't it be safer to go with cars that have never been painted and repaired?

And I believe that you are trying to tell me that not all after market paint is crap, OK, true. But I have simply not seen any to be convinced of otherwise. That of course, does not mean that it doesn't exist. I use LA because this is the base of my search, and in LA, most shops are crap. In fact, if you are ever here, I will give you a grand tour of all the really bad shops. How's that?

So given that, I am not sure that your theoretically possible and your I am just as good argument really helps me or someone in the U.S. who are looking for an M5.

From what I have seen, it is inferior. Now, of course it goes back to cost, as you say. And insurance companies simply will not fork over the kind of work required at this stage of the game given the age of the car. And as far as cost goes, it is true that BMW is a for profit company, but as far as that goes, I think that even if they decide to use say, less sufuric acid in the process due to cost, I would still say that the work is better than anything that any reasonable adjuster would pay for. And when most owners don't know Glasurit from a glass of beer, I say the chances of getting a repaired M5 that is done well is pretty slim, no?



I know Aston hand paint their cars. But for most production cars, it's pretty easy to tell with a meter.

Yes, and for the most part, the thickness is pretty (or I should say, was) consistent on E36, E39, etc, just to name a few. BMW was sued in the U.S. for not disclosing one of their cars that had significant repaint at the VPC, because the market said painted cars are worth less. I believe the judgment was something like a million dollars in damage.


If I was worried about cost, the GT2 is most certainly the wrong car to have, no?

Sebring NL

If you agree with me that aftermarket paint CAN be the same or even exceeding quality as OEM, although you haven't seen it, I can agree with you that if a car has been sprayed to the usual US paint "standards" its worth less than an all-OEM painted car.

However, don't think that when you finally find the fully OEM painted car, your trained eye will never spot any rust or paint fading. it may be one thing that LA sprayed cars are found wanting, but OEM paint isn't a bullet proof vest for quality.

I would gladly take upon your offer to get a tour on bad bodyshops in LA, and I will definately be interested in the difference in approach. Might even be a market there! On the other hand, if you should find yourself in Europe once, don't hesitate to allow me to introduce you to some people who are considered amongst the best painters in the world and their work.


brg

Wout

stuka

We are actually going to Europe for ED of my MIL's E60 530xi early next year, if schedule permits, I will take you up on the offer.

Hopefully I can get my E34 M5 nailed down before then.

Mtechnik540i

I'm still 'on the fence' with this claim that lots of body shops can replicate, or even shame the process that the manufacturer uses. Regardless, the likelihood that your typical US E34 M5 has been resprayed by one of these top notch places, I'm guessing, is slim to none. These cars aren't ususally disposable cars, but rarely treated like an Italian or something 'exotic'...Atleast, 'round these parts.

I think this talk of comparing Original paint vs. Aftermarket paint has gone far enough...Most of us can agree why stuka is in the pursuit of an Original paint car.

__________________
-Trevor Ely
"Other's do individual things better, but no car does so much so well" -Performance Car 1992
E28 535is - Alpinweiss/Pacific
B5 1.8TQMS - Light Silver Met/Onyx Sport Cloth
E30 325is - Alpinweiss/Schwarz
E30 318is - Brilliantrot/Natur
E30 325is - Brilliantrot/Schwarz
E34 540ia M-Sport - Cosmoschwarz/Parchment
E34 M5 - Alpinweiss/Schwarz

stuka

I don't think that's his point, I think that he is saying that it IS possible. My industry experience in LA tells me that I have not seen them yet.

That's my point. And yes, I usually whip out my meter when I go look at cars. The sales people usually gets really quiet and stop being really salesy because at that point, they realized that you probably know more than they do about the car that they are tyring to sell.

I am really hoping that I can just get that 3.8 turnkey and be done. I write one check, and it is done. No fussing with getting a 3.8 and 6 speed, etc...

puppypilgrim

This thread reminds me of Howard Hughes.

__________________
1990 BMW Alpina B10-BiTurbo #37
http://i50.tinypic.com/11k87th.jpg