Hi chaps, just a 'heads up' on my Inspection 1. Having a number of things sorted, 1. diff/speedo sensor. (speedo keeps dropping out which in turn knocks out the EDC). 2. New clutch. 3. New blower resistor. 4. New centre bearing 4. Front brake pads. and a NEW FLYWHEEL.
Apparantly the flywheel has worn out? Not sure of the mechanics of how they work but understand they help even out the torsional virabtion from the engine. The Technician showed it me on the car this morning, its like you grab the flywheel at the bottom and pull, the thing rocks back and forth (about 3 to 4 mm) and this shouldn't happen. They noticed this because they were cleaning the flywheel after examining the clutch.
I'd previously sensed some juddering and virbation somewhere in the car and just did not know what it could be. The juddering is obviously the flywheel.
The clutch plates had loads of hotspots on them and the friction plate was down to the rivets (0.5mm). and had been slipping for the last couple of days (in 4th gear pushing hard at 4000rpm)
Anybody else heard of their flywheel wearing out?
Thanks
__________________
2005 E60 M5 Interlagos blue
Last edited by yewcorner; 18th November 2005 at 13:34.
I've had it happen, and BMW told me it is very easy to do as you first feel a little clutch slip now and then, and then it goes so you think it was just an anomoly. Then when you feel the clutch slipping again you know you need a new clutch - only to find you need a new flywheel as well. In my case I noticed it slipping and immediately called BMW to order a new clutch. By the time it was in stock and was ready to be fitted the flywheel was worn.
__________________ "If you're not producing skidmarks you're not trying hard enough"
During the early 90 's Porche had a devil of a problem with dual mass flywheels on the 964.
Still, most failures with them still appear to friction wear related with the clutch driven plate friction face material getting to low & scoring the rear face of flywheel.
Ironically, its often the properly used clutches that can get worn down so far that they dont slip significantly until damage occurs..
This one has done 157k, so if they do fail due to wear and tear, then this is fair enough. It'll be with us Tuesday next week at circa £380 +VAT (inc discount.). The technician is on a course next week and will fit it on a week Saturday, so without the 'Beast' for another week or so. However, these Guys have let me have a brand new 318Ci auto FOC for the duration. Can't knock it can you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by farrell
Yes
Dual mass flywheels do wear out.
During the early 90 's Porche had a devil of a problem with dual mass flywheels on the 964.
Still, most failures with them still appear to friction wear related with the clutch driven plate friction face material getting to low & scoring the rear face of flywheel.
Ironically, its often the properly used clutches that can get worn down so far that they dont slip significantly until damage occurs..
Brian, a bit late now that you've ordered the flywheel but, is it not reccomended to fit the 3,6 fly wheel inplace of the dm 3.8 one. sure I've read something here on that.
Also as this thread has some experience commentating - I'm about to order new top mounts (non edc) and theres a choice of; standard, +1deg & -1deg. Any thoughts on which one's I should go for?
Phil.
Just to clarify, I'm having the standard 3.8 DM flywheel fitted to my 3.8. Like you I'm sure I've read something about the 3.6/3.8 flywheel scenario, but not sure what's what?
And when your car is sitting there on the BMW ramp's for an Inspection 1, and your only anticipating just a clutch change?! (What am I saying, any visit to the dealer I await with great trepidation and anticipation) Your mind seems to freeze up (Panic!!) and you just go with the flow with standard equipment. Given its lasted 160k with no problems to date (Last clutch was fitted at 111k with my engine rebuild) and no real advantage? to changing to a different flywheel (I did think about one of those lightened balance jobbies, but think they are probably twice the price, and I have absolutely no idea if it would enhance anything performance/usability) I stuck with the expertise of the original expertise from BMW.
With regard to the top mounts, I'd stick with the EDC, can't see any real advantage to changing the camber. My understanding and bourne out in practice is that the whole EDC/suspension ensures that the maximum amount of rubber is on the road at any given time/circumstance. Theres a bit in section 7' of the attachement comparing the suspension to that of a racing car.
I'm sure one of the other Guys maybe able to give you further reference for this piece. I have to say I'm not technical by any means.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlem5
Brian, a bit late now that you've ordered the flywheel but, is it not reccomended to fit the 3,6 fly wheel inplace of the dm 3.8 one. sure I've read something here on that.
Also as this thread has some experience commentating - I'm about to order new top mounts (non edc) and theres a choice of; standard, +1deg & -1deg. Any thoughts on which one's I should go for?
Phil.
Brian.
For someone who purports to be "Not technical" You have a very good grasp with things associated with E34 M5.
You are far to modest.
Phil
Changing your top mount will angle to -1 degree static will improve stability & cornering in the dry.
You are altering the camber angle & also the intersection point of the damper tube centre line axis relative to the tyre contact patch.
The Kinematic forces applied to the front end geometry once moving & under load will increase this -1 degree as more steering lock is applied.
In the wet it will make the car more skittish & less progressive.
Tyre wear will suffer & you will effectively half the life of a pair of fronts.
Thats why BMW have set the Geometry as it is.
A compromise that give the right mix of handling & tyre durability.
I have no idea why you would add +1 degree of positive camber to an M5 assuming all is well with the Geometry as std.
Farrell
Last edited by farrell; 19th November 2005 at 11:37.
Brian, I certainly agree that BMW engineers are clever chappies and can appreciate you sticking with the original spec flywheel, and also with your car disabled you dont want to add to the delay. With my car there is no edc so I have the finacial pleasure of buying a conventional set up, although I have gone down the koni / h&r road via cyrus. An excellent piece of info the technical guide. I have a copy sitting beside my desk. Ta. Hope your beastie is back with you soon.
Farrell, Thanks to your advice I believe I will stick to standard. I know that neg is supposed to keep the contact patch more constant when cornering at speed (never notice any racing cars with anything but on the front), but with the trade off being higher wear and less grip in the wet and my car being my daily driver I'll go with the factory set up, might keep a set of the positive mounts in the boot for the ring trip next year.
Cheers.
Last edited by Phlem5; 19th November 2005 at 15:36.
boy i dont know your time frame or if your have to stick with your order but i have a flywheel freshly resurfaced and in perfect shape with 65k on. i am from united states so shipping might take a few days but i would sell my to you for $200 us. i think new they are around $600 us. the reason i have mine is i did replace with 3.6 single mass and clutch. no probs what so ever, quicker reving took a long time to drive smooth again.
Thanks very much for your kind offer. However, I'm so happy with the way my engine performs at the moment (rebuilt 45k miles ago and just run in) that I'd like to stick with the OE. BMW changed to the Dual Mass for a reason, I don't know what this is mind you, but whether or not my engine would rev faster? I think is pretty irrelevant to me. It revs pretty darn fast now and can't see the advantage of the 3.6 flywheel.
Maybe one of the Guys (Farrell or Ray W.) could give us an explanation on the benefits of the two options.
I thank you again for your kind offer, one of the other Guys may take you up on the offer.
Cheers! and best regards
Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by jselig
boy i dont know your time frame or if your have to stick with your order but i have a flywheel freshly resurfaced and in perfect shape with 65k on. i am from united states so shipping might take a few days but i would sell my to you for $200 us. i think new they are around $600 us. the reason i have mine is i did replace with 3.6 single mass and clutch. no probs what so ever, quicker reving took a long time to drive smooth again.
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