I am interested in making a carbon intake plenum and ridding the car of the MAF sensor. I have thought about putting in a Motec system or something similiar. I will need to add something to measure engine load and a throttle positon sensor of some sort all of which i think the Motec system can handle.
I read about this as so many E30 M3 owners had a very hard time getting over 200 hp with cams chips and cold air as the stock engine management will not allot for too much tuning, so ive heard of people turning to these Motec systems to get more horsepower from these cars. Thought it would work on the S38 as well, any experience with this for anyone?
I'm looking to get to at least 100hp per liter I think with this increades intake runners, and a new air flow path into a carbon Airbox which will be allot colder than the metalic unit currently on it. Plus with a new Engine Management system from racing cars could alter fuel and timing and such as to make a real rocket. And with a totally adaptable Engine management system the in the future when you wanted to ad Cmas you would notice a much larger increase in performance over using the stock Airbox.
Anyone Else considered this? I know of a few companies that could fabricabe the carbon fiber airbox like the one seen in the E46 M3 CSL show car seen a few months back, not the one that was just road tested recently. I say the origional one with the Carbon cover over the coils and the Carbon Airbox and loved it.
Does nobody have any imput here? Is no one itnerested in this Idea, or am i all alone guys. Give me some feedback? anyone have experience with an aftermarket ECU?
No you're not alone out there, I'm also considering to do some major changes to my Beast. Actually thinking of going a bit more extreme and build a new motor for it and also go with Turbo chargers. I've looked into Engine Management systems and the system that seems to please me best is from Electromotive and it comes with separate Ignition coils ( no more cap & rotor ) also it uses TP and Intake pressure sensor instead of Air Mass Meter ( which restricts airflow). Also what I really like with it is its simplicity to program you can actually do most of the tuning on the road and when you're ready for it do the final tuning on a Dynamo, and you can make multiple programs so you can have a low HP prog for normal driving and when you feel like it just connect your laptop and upload your Race prog...
Which brings me to ask you guys how much does a used 3.8 engine go for ??? I think that one will be better as starting material, if I'm not incorrect the 3.8 has bigger valves than the 3.6..
Eventually when I get things rolling I will post pics etc..
Yes the 3.8 has larger valves and larger intake ports by the throttle butterflies. I am choosing to stay naturally aspirated as to not get into huge mods like changing compression and such. I would like to get this rolling and when people see the gains i'm sure i could also sell it as both a huge boost in HP and sticking with BMW tradition of natural aspiration and also improving the look of that already awesome looking S38B38. I would be starting with a 3.8 so it will already have the individual coils. The Motec you can tune on the road with a laptop hook up as well.
What does the electromotive system you speak of run for a six cylinder engine?
Any ideas.
The basic idea of the intake in carbon and getting rid of the MAF is to increase airflow, coupled with a better exhaust system and having the Air rammed into the cylinders should get my 3.8 to 400HP but cost would probably be under 5k but i think worth it as torque would also increase as well.
I tried to check MoTeC's website but there doesn't seem to be much information regarding what the ECU actually can or can't control....... My main concern is like you said your 3.8 has the separate Ignition coils... but keep in mind that they are controlled by the Motronic ECU and I doubt that the MoTeC system will be able to run those coils which means you will have to get a different system for the Ignition There is no way that the Motronic can control the ignition only without getting all the load signals etc from the old sensors, ie Air Mass Sensor etc...
Currently I dont know what the total cost on the Electromotive system is gonna be, also depends on the choice of Injectors and sensors etc..
The Coils Electromotive is using are the same as on alot of newer cars that uses 1 coil for every 2 cylinders, its actually a simple trick But most important is that there is plenty of time for the coil to charge up so you'll get good spark at very high RPM's.
You can get aftermarket engine management systems to run the and in theory it should not be that problematic most of the will interface with original sensors and even run multicoil setups.
*coolant temp
*top dead centre sensor ( front crank pullry sensor)
*crank position sensor (usually reads the teeth on the flywheel)
*throttle position sensor
*oxigen sensor for cat
Now, here is where the fun starts, bmw uses along with most manufactuers an airflow sensor, in order to know how much air is going in to the engine so the engine management computer can figure out how much fuel to inject. this takes the guessing out of the equation as it will compensate for blocked airfilters or high altitude for example as well as the different states of engine wear, and build tolerance.
If you remove the air mas meter, in order to keep proper control of the amount air entering the engine you are going to need 2 additional sensors I believe
*a map sensor ( to compensate for altitude)
* air temp sensor (to compensate for different ambient air temperatures
the biggest problem I foresee is going to be the mapping, it takes a fair amount of time as you will have to map the entire operating range of the enginem including cold start and warm up cycle, if done profesionally this mean a large chunk of money in labour costs.
Ideally also you should play with the length of air intakes, as they should be tuned to the engine, since you are removing the original plenum you will have to try different lengths of intake trumpets untill you find which ones give you the best compromise, once you have found which ones work best you will have to have a plenum built around them and try to figure out a cold air intake arrangement with a filter.
At the same since you are trying to ring out the last ounce from the engine you should consider changing the inlet cam, one is available from Shrick in germany, it has 11.00 lift against 10.7 for the BMW factory unit, and it has 270 degrees duration againts 264 for the factory unit, thet reckon the cam alone can give you up too 10% power improvement at the top end, I would also recommend having the cylinder head gasflowed along with the inlet manifold.
I think you could be correct that if you implement all the mods the engine output would close to the 400 bhp, but its not going to be easy or cheap.
I believe the original air mass meter has a protective screen to prevent possible debri damaging hot wire filaments, if you remove this screen it will improve the airflow through the meter.
In addition to mochek, suitable engine management systems would be webber-marrelli and MBE (as used by TVR).
I look forward to hearing from your exploits as I believe if you carry out all the above modifications you will have a real animal under the bonnet.
Thanks Joe for the great post and sharing what you know, that is what i'm looking for in these message boards, EVERYONES opinion! THANKS
I'm gald you mentioned the inlet trumpet lengths, because i am reading up on how F1 cars use Variable length inlet paths at low RPM (longer) for more torwue and at the high end where theyre longer for more HP. So i am checking this out as well.
I will check on the Marelli system as well. I actually will talk to a bunch of these and see what they say as you guys have pointed out a few things such as the fact that it would have to do all ignition as well on a car which uses individual coils. I have read and heard of a company having coils for this car, I heard that apparently Scott Epstein has used these and has had sucess with them. Anyone know anything on that front?
I had a E-34 w/M-20 2.5L (171 hp) and i bought a Turbo-intercooler kit and the result was 240 hp/310 nm very fast and a nice sleeper,, I remember,, after some info search that the
airflowmeter was NOT capable for more than 240 hp for this engine !!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, that is what i have always heard tha tthe airflow meter limits the amount of HP you can get from these cars, there is only so much you cna do with a car with these and my main objective is to rid the car of them that way you can really see gains out of these cars.
Is there a way for the BME and motronic units to get this information without an airflow meter and add in some other sensors? Or do you need to just go with an entirely different ECU?
I am not sure you can ""bluff"" the E.C.U. (DME) but i remember
in my case it was neccessary to get another airflowmeter,,
Another thing also possible,, Higher fuel press and larger injector
plus reprogramming~~~time^^ignition and so on but that is what you have been talking about, i hope you find some interresring solution and let us know what kind of Einstein experience you have being trough.
Carbon Fiber Intake and Motec ECU?
There is no way that the Motronic can control the ignition only without getting all the load signals etc from the old sensors, ie Air Mass Sensor etc...
Linear Mode
