I think the way you are trying to find your need is very poorly wrote/asked without technical details etc....What you are saying above the words you have used does not make any sense
Indeed 'Pspassos' does not make his hands dirty as for example I, Raymond, Tomba, Wout, David, Darren and other board member..He, pspassos is using you Mr. Engine Builder in one word pspassos does not have the ability to build the engine.
I tried to give some general input to "Pspassos" about factory cam gears to 'Hop Up' and do mild upgrade. It has nothing to do with your particular engine build etc
No i never used one before...
Another very naive comment...In this country were the automotive industry, engine building is very advanced and people who own very big shops with very advanced machinery can do it. I am speaking from experience. Because I have done it many times. And if you having trouble to do so its all your problem.
As I always like to say "Quality Has its price" choice is yours. If something does not make sense for your $ do not buy it. No one is pushing you to do so.
Mr. Engine Builder. with your very poor technical description/question it made barely sense in my opinion...
I am willing to give my opinion wether its valuable to you or not. You should appreciate our board members the effort to help because you are the one who needs help not me/us the members, indeed you don't.
Today I made the effort to take some pics in order to help you Mr Engine Builder and Pspassos some one who is telling me that I have never seen a100 cam gear in my life, i like that..
Hear is S14 engine that I have completed not long ago I wont go in details and specification etc...
As you can see its has Individual coils for each cyl as S38-B38
Do you see some were the camshaft position sensor ?
Yes I will install adjustable cam gears very soon.
I have done this route you are trying to do..
A Homework is given to you Mr Engine Builder....
With best regards from worm California
Anri
No, iīm not trying to find my needs.. my customer (so sad to know that have people over here with your mind..) tried to know about fitment of adjustable gears options, just this.. You, in the place to help he (if you know.. off-course..), you prefered to say useless words to proof some knowledge here, full of arrogance..
If you are not able to give a technical help, donīt try to say ignorant things.
Your sprocket is not Evo sprocket - 11311311781 one.. and you can work with individual coils without cam sensor .. you can do group fire even with individual coils. And is also possible to use phase signal from any other place that show you if the cylinder is in timming of inlet or exhaust.. very simple.. like 2+2 = 4.. i donīt understand why you are so happy to show that. Itīs very basic.
There is no big disadvantage of this wasted spark setup, besides the more consumption of spark plug central electrode to waste one spark firing in pair and also to waste coil charging dwell time for the next fire. So, in expensive spark plugs, like DENSO Racing types, is a big advantage to fire sequencial. And also, sequencial fuel injection help a lot when you work with high lift, high duration camshaft timming and also high overlap timming.
By the way, this is not the point, the point is use adjustable sprocket gear keeping OEM B38 rotor and cam sensor. Like you donīt know the answer, you are trying to proof your knowledge by other points not important for the questions.
Iīm learning everyday.. and the secret of it, is not to be arrogant.. the first step to be ignorant person, is be arrogant.. so, think in this ...
And i understand why you canīt help in this case, because B38 engines are very rare in US. Thatīs normal.. like some american engines are rare here.. itīs not a problem.
But, the best answer should be: "Passos, i donīt know to answer your in this specific doubt"..
Nobody here will think that you are a idiot because you donīt know a answer.. itīs normal. And internet is not a place to proof nothing, agree with me?
There is no big disadvantage of this wasted spark setup, besides the more consumption of spark plug central electrode to waste one spark firing in pair and also to waste coil charging dwell time for the next fire. So, in expensive spark plugs, like DENSO Racing types, is a big advantage to fire sequencial. And also, sequencial fuel injection help a lot when you work with high lift, high duration camshaft timming and also high overlap timming.
This S14-B23 S/C was build in early 90's and was not build by me. Recently I have changed the head gasket etc..The entire engine management is old dated and not the way I would do this set up using different stand alone management. I assumed you try to remove the camshaft position sensor etc..[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatheusS50
By the way, this is not the point, the point is use adjustable sprocket gear keeping OEM B38 rotor and cam sensor. Like you donīt know the answer, you are trying to proof your knowledge by other points not important for the questions.
You MatheusS50 sitting behind the curtains and having Passoss your client to start a completelly wrong post Is this the way you do business ? Having your customers to find a information that you need ?
This is how you suppose to come and start this thread in similar way or so.
"Is there a way to use adjustable cam gear on the exhaust site and keep the Factory camshaft position sensor in place, any ideas would be greatly appreciated"
Simply you are trying to wash your hands with Passoss who indeed started a wrong post ! You have an account I wonder why you did not start the post yourself...You left that to Passos who is indeed did not asked the question in a right way...
Hear are "Passoss" very poorly asked question !!!!" Will the S14 Evo ones fit the S38B38? I am talking about 11311311781 part number... And I also found the 11311308513 part number as well...I have doubts because I know S14 and S38B36 can interchange it, but the camshaft sensor on B38 is on a different position.... This is very poor question without details...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatheusS50
Iīm learning everyday..
I am learning every day to..you are not the only one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatheusS50
I understand why you canīt help in this case, because B38 engines are very rare in US. Thatīs normal.. like some american engines are rare here.. itīs not a problem.
I like how judgmental person you are! This another very naive comment. Indeed you imagination is ranged down to a dot...since you can not imagine some one who own work and maintain E34 M5 3.8 in US... I am speechless...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatheusS50
Nobody here will think that you are a idiot because you donīt know a answer.. itīs normal. And internet is not a place to proof nothing, agree with me?
I will repeat my self if you@passos ever start this post Threat this way. "Is there a way to use adjustable cam gear on the exhaust site and keep the Factory camshaft position sensor in place, any ideas would be greatly appreciated"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatheusS50
you are a idiot
Typical short tempered behavior.
At the second page on Passos's very poor and not detailed post you came from behind the curtains mentioned FINALY to say what you are trying figure out there.
I had to pull few engines out of my storage before I pulled the engine that you never imagine I would own and work on !
Now after the second page of very poor posting I understood what are you trying to do.
I have an idea that will work ! At this point why would share !...
__________________
__________________________________________________ _________________________
- It is super fun to build your own custom car the way you want it and like it.
- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan Original condition. Daily driver, keeper, Dinan suspension, Dinan adjustable sway bars, Evo S14 A100 cam gear, TMS chip, 360mm 6pot front, BBS 17x9,5 BBS E26 Magnesium Race wheels wrapped 255's.
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey Collectible for shows 100% all original unrestored, keeper..
- E24 M6 1988 Shwarts/Lotus For Sale E24 M6 http://euroclassicmotors.com/galleries/bmwm6e24.html.
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus white S85-B50 Restoration in proses.
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Recaro S38-B36 3.6 goal is ~52/48 weight distribution at around 2800 pounds. My Track car for Vintage Racing !
- E30 M3 1990 Euro B38 3.8 goal is ~52/48 at ~2800 pounds.
- E53 X5 3.0 2003 Wife's car.
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, CSI exterior.
Last edited by First e28 M5; 21st June 2012 at 16:18.
Nobody here will think that you are a idiot because you donīt know a answer.. itīs normal. And internet is not a place to proof nothing, agree with me?
Regards,
Matheus
Is very different to your suggestion , Anri ..........
Here we have a new member that is obviously incredibly knowledgable in a specialist field and in a difficult location .
Why would you choose to discourage this member from becoming active on here ?
He has a specific question and only wants a specific answer .
No need for hostility .
One Big Happy E34 M5 Loving Family !
That's what makes this forum different from most !
Best Wishes to all that have positivity to offer .............
I would like to thank everyone that tried to help here, even saying that I know nothing, that I asked a poorly asked question, that I dont get my hands dirty so for it I should stay quiet etc etc.
Matheus entered the thread because I asked him to. He was not "hiding behind the curtains"...
I at least have the simplicity to ask something I do not know... I am An entusiast, not an expert... My expertyse is in other areas... But I never disrespect who askes me something in my area as well....
__________________
'95 3.8 6speed ///M5
You wash your car like it was your firstborn child, you tend to its needs like it was your own body, you rotect it like it's your family, then you drive it like you stole it.
I think all of this is a misunderstanding... Matheus just joined this forum and is one of the best engine builders here in brazil , and he works mostly (only, really) with bmw engines and ///M engines. If you want your engine really improved over factory, he is the one to go to.
it is a bless that he lives near me and itīs really a luxury that he can do maintenance on my engines , besides the upgrades...
(think like those german engineers from garching doing your valve clearance , oil changes , etc for you... )
Passos and Matheus are not siamese twins , heck , they donīt even live on the same state... Passos can ask questions to whoever he wants , and the way he wants. Matheus has no control over that... Matheus is not behind any curtains ... About the sprocket , matheus aways knew what could be done, he even gave passos some options ... Passos just wanted the members opinions ... only that.
i had my S14B23 built into an S14B25 by Matheus. We used the Adjustable Sprocket from the BMW Motorsport Catalog ( part number 11311311781). Here in this topic passos called it Ļevo sprocketĻ , i think this is the misunderstandment , because i really donīt know if this was OEM to the m3 Sport Evo or Evo 2 or even Evo 1 ...
Passos never wanted to mention sprocket A100 , or anything like that. YOU WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING !
I have a picture of the valve train that i changed in my m3 , over my bed , and you can see the 2 ADJUSTABLE sprockets that they are talking about , from the Motorsport catalog (not real oem etc)
1st e28 m5 was so proud to show an engine that he Ļhad just completedĻ(making us believe he built it) only to say later that he did not build it and it was obsolete... i think that is funny Passos (matheus) is installing a motec 800 series on the B38, why would he up grade the management (ECU) and downgrade the ignition (firing/fueling)? group firing was never intended for this project...
I would not try to Ļgive homeworkĻ to someone i donīt know nothing about because i could get schooled... i think this is good advice...
Matheus never said that you would never own or work on an S38B38 , he said what is a FACT , that is , B38 is rare in the us , since it was only imported independently. you donīt have to know everything there is to know about an engine that was not imported officially to your country. in your effort you just proved that , since you had to pull 2 B36 and the V8 to finally find one B38... i know a friend here in brazil that has one of those in his living room... not that here you can get this engine in every bakery or newsstand around , but it WAS imported officially to brazil AND itīs rare here also...
Back in 1994 when i lived in the USA , people would come up to me and ask if i carried a big knife or a gun to go to school here in brazil ... I wondered why and they replied Ļto kill the big snakes and crocodiles on your way to schoolĻ... brazil is NOT the rain forest , we donīt live like savages , we have all the amenities that the modern world have , like fast internet , fast food , cars , roads , supermarkets, big screen tvs , smart phones, apple stores, stock market ... in our gas stations we even have gasoline , alchool (ethanol), diesel , natural gas ,chocolates, gum, candy ,sodas and everything... Stereotyping is not the way to go...
This S14-B23 S/C was build in early 90's and was not build by me. Recently I have changed the head gasket etc..The entire engine management is old dated and not the way I would do this set up using different stand alone management. I assumed you try to remove the camshaft position sensor etc..
You MatheusS50 sitting behind the curtains and having Passoss your client to start a completelly wrong post Is this the way you do business ? Having your customers to find a information that you need ?
This is how you suppose to come and start this thread in similar way or so.
"Is there a way to use adjustable cam gear on the exhaust site and keep the Factory camshaft position sensor in place, any ideas would be greatly appreciated"
Simply you are trying to wash your hands with Passoss who indeed started a wrong post ! You have an account I wonder why you did not start the post yourself...You left that to Passos who is indeed did not asked the question in a right way...
Hear are "Passoss" very poorly asked question !!!!" Will the S14 Evo ones fit the S38B38? I am talking about 11311311781 part number... And I also found the 11311308513 part number as well...I have doubts because I know S14 and S38B36 can interchange it, but the camshaft sensor on B38 is on a different position.... This is very poor question without details...
I am learning every day to..you are not the only one.
I like how judgmental person you are! This another very naive comment. Indeed you imagination is ranged down to a dot...since you can not imagine some one who own work and maintain E34 M5 3.8 in US... I am speechless...
I will repeat my self if you@passos ever start this post Threat this way. "Is there a way to use adjustable cam gear on the exhaust site and keep the Factory camshaft position sensor in place, any ideas would be greatly appreciated"
Typical short tempered behavior.
At the second page on Passos's very poor and not detailed post you came from behind the curtains mentioned FINALY to say what you are trying figure out there.
I had to pull few engines out of my storage before I pulled the engine that you never imagine I would own and work on !
Now after the second page of very poor posting I understood what are you trying to do.
I have an idea that will work ! At this point why would share !...
Good luck with Passos's project
Anri
Hi Anri,
No ofense to you from my side. I just tried to show you that the way is not to be arrogant, but help each another in his doubts, or if canīt help, thatīs ok.. the life is like this.. sometimes we have to say that we donīt know.. i say it manytimes in my life and itīs help me to learn everyday.
By the way, you said correct, we are using different management system than OEM Motronic. In Passosīs engine iīm using MoTec M800 ECU. But when i apply stand-alone, i donīt proceed downgrades to be more simple and easy setup.
The Passosīs engine continues with FULL sequencial firing and injection. I applied special DENSO Racing spark plugs in his engine (in my former job, i worked in high performance spark plug division at DENSO company), and like i said, group fire decrease the life of plug.
And semi-sequencial (or group) injection is also bad to work with high profile camshafts. So, sequencial injection and firing is the best world even for Racing engines.
I keep the OEM sensors because BMW sensores are very reliable. I just replace for new sensors and i correct the MoTec sensors filter tables to keep OEM sensors. Even if is a common supplier (example BOSCH), when you buy a genuine part, the supplier is obligated to respect the spec sheet of it. Itīs explain why the genuine parts usually last longer than the same part from the supplier that you bought in aftermarket store.
So, when i use MoTec management system, i can assure for my customers that the reliability of the car is the same of before when itīs used OEM management system.
Besides i can remap the OEM Motronic EPROM file, i use MoTec because with M800 i can do individual cylinder tuning, knock detection (that never equipped S38 and is also a challenge due mechanical tappets noise) system, full management setup for ignition and injection timming/duration (you can build the map according to your needs) and also your load setup (in Passosīs case, like is a Race engine, my load base is using Alpha N method, that consider mainly TPS position and air temperature to calculate the air mass that is entering in the engine according to itīs VE, but i also use Baro sensor to correct the Ti according altitude).
Then, i just requested to Passos a adjustable sprocket that can be used KEEPING OEM B38 pick up rotor for cam sensor, because everything is working good..
I never requested to he come to here and ask, but, i can say that is not a bad idea.. Why not he can ask some doubts about part application in a BMW community? For me, is not a crime in this..
So, when he commented to me about this forum, i entered here and i saw the kind of words that you said to he, get me surprised... i really donīt like arrogant people and behavior, with anybody..
Iīm so sad to begin in this nice community by this thread.. but i would like to thank you for the welcome words of Mr. Davidoli.
I think all of this is a misunderstanding... Matheus just joined this forum and is one of the best engine builders here in brazil , and he works mostly (only, really) with bmw engines and ///M engines. If you want your engine really improved over factory, he is the one to go to.
it is a bless that he lives near me and itīs really a luxury that he can do maintenance on my engines , besides the upgrades...
(think like those german engineers from garching doing your valve clearance , oil changes , etc for you... )
Passos and Matheus are not siamese twins , heck , they donīt even live on the same state... Passos can ask questions to whoever he wants , and the way he wants. Matheus has no control over that... Matheus is not behind any curtains ... About the sprocket , matheus aways knew what could be done, he even gave passos some options ... Passos just wanted the members opinions ... only that.
i had my S14B23 built into an S14B25 by Matheus. We used the Adjustable Sprocket from the BMW Motorsport Catalog ( part number 11311311781). Here in this topic passos called it Ļevo sprocketĻ , i think this is the misunderstandment , because i really donīt know if this was OEM to the m3 Sport Evo or Evo 2 or even Evo 1 ...
Passos never wanted to mention sprocket A100 , or anything like that. YOU WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING !
I have a picture of the valve train that i changed in my m3 , over my bed , and you can see the 2 ADJUSTABLE sprockets that they are talking about , from the Motorsport catalog (not real oem etc)
1st e28 m5 was so proud to show an engine that he Ļhad just completedĻ(making us believe he built it) only to say later that he did not build it and it was obsolete... i think that is funny Passos (matheus) is installing a motec 800 series on the B38, why would he up grade the management (ECU) and downgrade the ignition (firing/fueling)? group firing was never intended for this project...
I would not try to Ļgive homeworkĻ to someone i donīt know nothing about because i could get schooled... i think this is good advice...
Matheus never said that you would never own or work on an S38B38 , he said what is a FACT , that is , B38 is rare in the us , since it was only imported independently. you donīt have to know everything there is to know about an engine that was not imported officially to your country. in your effort you just proved that , since you had to pull 2 B36 and the V8 to finally find one B38... i know a friend here in brazil that has one of those in his living room... not that here you can get this engine in every bakery or newsstand around , but it WAS imported officially to brazil AND itīs rare here also...
Back in 1994 when i lived in the USA , people would come up to me and ask if i carried a big knife or a gun to go to school here in brazil ... I wondered why and they replied Ļto kill the big snakes and crocodiles on your way to schoolĻ... brazil is NOT the rain forest , we donīt live like savages , we have all the amenities that the modern world have , like fast internet , fast food , cars , roads , supermarkets, big screen tvs , smart phones, apple stores, stock market ... in our gas stations we even have gasoline , alchool (ethanol), diesel , natural gas ,chocolates, gum, candy ,sodas and everything... Stereotyping is not the way to go...
Thank you for the words!
And you are correct.. we are talking about "Evo" sprocket.. but the correct is to talking using the part number, because we had 3 generations of S14 Evo..
Iīm talking from begining only about OEM sloted EVO 11311311781, like the ones that i applied in your S14 engine.
I just requested to Passos a adjustable sprocket that can be used KEEPING OEM B38 pick up rotor for cam sensor, because everything is working good..
Hi Matheus,
Simply it is Miss Understanding between your side and my end Passos being in the middle because you request to Passos who did not ask properly the question, as I can call this Human Being mistake nothing wrong ! There are no perfect people in the world Agreed ?
Matheus I am eager to learn as well simply you are not the only one. Do you know how many times I have contacted Darren, Janne-MM5 to ask a questions on how to improve things, or to solve a problem ? And stay till till 12 midnight. I am not afraid to ask the Big guys as some other people.
In this particular case I try to help and because the question was not represented well this is were this post lead to !
Matheus, this thread is the perfect example of what lack of communication is leading to.
Every builder has its way of doing things. For example your choice is Motec800 I would use other brand will be as of minimum as good as Motec800 (I dont want to go in details becuasue this will open another not needed topic) This is how things are.
I will please ask those who buy New Parts from BMW dealer and ship them and bring them to Matheus's shop simply called "customers" to stop adding and stay in there place.
I do not bring parts to some one to build my Custom Engine or work on my 10' BMW M-cars including S38 S62 S54 powered cars. I do it my self, I try to do the best I can. If there is anything to improve I will ask, I am open to learn more and more.
As Darren says " Our work is all in house..Maa mechnic = me. Maa engine engine builder...thats me too"
Matheus something to share.
--When I started to build my Race/Track car E24 M6 with pushed in 3,6 engine 15 inches back to improve weight distribution, Improve rear susspension, to increase LSD to go to 4.27 Gear from 3.91, to build the full roll cage to spec!, to Convert S6S 420G 6 speed out of S54 to fit the S38 block.Note(because the factory 6spd and rediculos expensive is hard to find and I have S54 6spd for free sitting in garage), to build the engine to last on the track even being stock !!!!! with mild upgrades, improve cooling system(not just using big radiator!!!), Crank hub, Oil System, Custom Oil paaan, Custom Oil Pick up this that....Brakes, ABS moved in the Trunk, Alternator Moved in the Trunk, Search Tank, Put the Car on scale to see numbers calculate spring rate chocks and tons of other things !!!!!!! I can keep going and keep going etc... This is not as davidoli's passos's e34 m5 lightened over the weekend and enjoyed at the track for fun...
I never asked a person to help me to build my Race Car the way I want it !!! for my class I want to race ! Maaaaaa Mechaic= me. Maaaa engine builder thats me toooo. Maaaa Driver thats=mee to
I am open to recover any confusion or miss understanding between you Matheus and I.
Lets say cheers to each other and go back to the bench and concentrate at work
21Likes
Passos (matheus) is installing a motec 800 series on the B38, why would he up grade the management (ECU) and downgrade the ignition (firing/fueling)? group firing was never intended for this project... 
to each other and go back to the bench and concentrate at work 
Linear Mode
