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91 M5 Engine Comments

4K views 23 replies 10 participants last post by  AseanAero 
#1 ·
I have had or currently own 3 M5s--loyal "board" reader and member
I curently own a E39 M5 Dinan and owned an E28M5
I had a chance last year to buy a interior pristine 91 E34M5 Alpine white
I added H & R springs and Dinan designed Koni shocks, and it has Dinan chip
Have found the E34 is a perfect "mix" between an E39 and E28/now my E34M5 is daily driver but...

Recently, at 150,000 miles, engine dropped a quart of oil per 1000 miles, and the transmission leaks oil

So took car to Dinan and they found that compression for all 6 at 160 and leakdown less than 10%

Engine comes out, and no obvious problems upon visual inspection for lower half was evident, such as excessive wear, metal shavings in the oil pan.
So cylinder head was removed and sent to machine shop
Machine shop examined cylinder head and presssure tested
They found no obvious damage to the block, crankshaft, piston etc, including no lip on the top of the cylinder walls

So based on condition reflected in attached pics, machine shop recommends a valve job, including replacement of oil pump, timing chain, tensioners, termostat, seals. gaskets etc, while the engine is partially taken apart.

So question for those of you who have gone throught this, do the attached pictures reflect a need to go further, or take apart everything and send the block out. Problem is Bavarian OEM biz does not sell remanfactured engines any more this car, and BMW does not sell not only engine but lower block parts, so I am told.

Comments thoughts?
Am i going in apparently the right direction?
I am not going to "track" this car, but want it for 75-90K miles in next 3-4 years, and will drive it hard on mountain twisty type roads hard at high rev.

Thanks for input
Marin M5 (bob)
 

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#2 ·
Bearing in mind everything is already in pieces i would replace as much as you can / want to afford before putting her back together. This alone should make the engine last at least another 100k miles.

The oil usage you mention doesn't sound that excessive, other board members have noted they use similar amounts whilst their engines are running fine.

Recondition - Replace - Rebuild = Continue enjoying E34 ownership!!
 
#3 ·
i would imagine they'd at least inspect the rod and main bearings while it's apart. I'd strongly consider replacing them (maybe they are and i missed that).
 
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#4 ·
91 M5 Engine Condition

Thank you for both of your comments.
As for the oil usage, I should have mentioned that when the engine got warmed up, I could smell a very definite "oil burn" smell from the right side of engine

I am now dealing with lower engine block small cracks
Separate post
Thanks again
Marin M5
(thanks Mike)
 
#14 ·
Thank you for both of your comments.
As for the oil usage, I should have mentioned that when the engine got warmed up, I could smell a very definite "oil burn" smell from the right side of engine

I am now dealing with lower engine block small cracks
Separate post
Thanks again
Marin M5
(thanks Mike)

Valve cover gasket or cam tray cover gasket. Mine does that too. Engine is leaned over such that a leak from either of those runs right onto the exhaust manifold.
 
#5 · (Edited)
In this stage (engine apart) and concidering that your engine used quitte a lot of oil, I would remove the pistons as well to inspect the following

1: Condition of oil-scraping ring and compression ring
2: Honing pattern on cylinder wall
3: Clearance between cylinders and pistons

Your block appears to be in fine condition and if item #3 (clearance) measures less then 0,10mm, I would just replace the piston rings, have the block mildly honed and replace the bearings. With more then 0,10mm, I would use oversized pistons (93,55mm) and have the block bored to 93,60mm. This resets the clearance to the factory-spec 0,05mm

For more information and background; refer to the engine rebuild of my E28 M5
 
#6 ·
Raymond
Thank you very much for your comments.
It was just the type of technical response I was looking for from someone with experience going this far.

Before I make my final decision on the block, take a look at my pictures I just sent today in a separate thread regarding my engine block in thread called "Lower block cracks"

Would you comment about the condition of the block or any of your recommendations change after your view of those few pictures?

As you already no doubt know, you provide a great service to us out there keeping the S38 E28/E34 M5 engines going forever.
Thanks again
Marin M5
(bob)
 
#8 ·
Bob, can you still get a "block and pistons" from bmw? I've got a friend in the dealer network and i'll have him check for you.
 
#9 ·
Sourcing E34M5 blocks

MIke
Raymond

Thanks very much for your comments.
Hopefully there is a block out there some where.
My service rep at Dinan says BMW does NOT have any left, remanufactured or not.

Mike, could you call your dealer source or send me PM re his name, since our info is that BMW has nothing. BMW price is no concern since it appears a dealer over-torquered my heads on a warranty repair earlier in this engine's life.

Raymond
Do you have any aftermarket sources?

thanks
Both of you
Marin M5
(bob)

Any one else out there in M5board land have any sources for E34M5 block with piston set?
 
#10 · (Edited)
I spoke to my friend today, as dinan said, there are no more 3.6L engines. No short blocks, no block and piston sets. It is not listed as "NLA" (no longer available), but there are zero in the US, zero in Germany, and zero in production. He thinks this may mean that eventually there may be some remanufactured engines available, but nothing in the foreseeable future.

However, there are 6 3.8L block and piston sets available in Germany! (actually that may have been complete 'short engine', i.e. bottom end) You'd need a 'legally' imported 3.8 M5's vin for him to order that, otherwise he is blocked from ordering those parts. You may ask dinan is that is a possibility, 3.8 block with the 3.6 top end? If so i may know of a guy.... (if all else falls thru with a good 3.6 block).
 
#11 ·
BMW 3.6L blocks Available?

Mike
Thanks so much for your taking the time in your busy schedule to call your source.

I will check with Dinan first thing Monday to see if the 3.8L block option could work (assuming we get around the VIN issue).

In the meantime, could you contact your potential source of a block to see if it is still available?
Thanks
Marin M5
(Bob)
 
#12 · (Edited)
I have placed the same question with my source (BMW dealer). I think that I will get an answer on Monday.

BTW: You could go for a used block (without pistons). These don't suffer from metal-fatigue and therefore are a very good basis for going to first oversize (93,60mm).

An S38B38 block will work as well. I know someone who used pistons from the S14B25 (E30 M3 sport evo) in an S38B36, which requires boring to 95,00mm. Since the S38B38 has a bore of 94,60mm that will work.

I may have a VIN of a legally imported 3.8 in my archive.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Bob, my friend put a call into bmw ag on friday to find out what the status is on 3.6L blocks. Current there are none, but the part is not listed as 'no longer available' which makes him think something is in the pipeline. I know if a friendly 3.8 owner who may loan you a vin if you need to go that route (which wouldn't be bad, from a performance standpoint).

Regarding the 3.8, bmw na also requires ownership and importation documents to bring in euro parts. The car must have been legally imported to the US and federalized. So we'd need more than just a vin.

Since bmw was asking for cores back on these various block/piston and short engine sets, he's thinking maybe they'll be offering remanufactured engines.
 
#17 ·
BMW Ag Steps up

Mike
Raymond
First, I want to thank you for calling your "dealer BMW" sources, since with my "dinan /peter pan/stevans creek 'source," and all the calls to Germany all of those "sources," made, I am very pleased to announce, for all the world of BMW guys like us, that BMW has agreed to start making "reman' blocks, for 3.6L engines E34 M5s, complete with piston set, two year warranty, and unlimited miles.

My "order" was sent to Germany on November 12, and I may have been the first order in the US for a new one under this I hope new BMW ag "programme", and I am told from my Dinan source, that my block will be shipped from Germany on November 17. (customs pass through could take weeks).

No matter. I had already had my "heads" finished, and they are beautiful, a machine shop next to and recommended by Dinan.

None of this would have happened without your telephone calls. What is your preference in vino? Santa wants to send you a thanks.

Rest of story, here, goes, I also ordered a "reman' tranny, at $5600, from BMW, ag, and again, two year warranty, unlimited miles.

I am now waiting for Dinan to put it all back together and after "break-in," can enjoy what BMW intended for what MMiller at "bimmer" calls the best that BMW has ever done.
Again thank you so very much.

(Note I still may order a back up block just in case BMW ag "backs out.")
Marin M5
(Bob)

Ps thanks to all of you out there sending me your recommendations. I looked at them all, but decided to stay with the "mother ship."
 
#19 · (Edited)
That is going to be the most Expensive 3.6 engine rebuild I have ever seen in my S38 play house carrier ! Gear box, engine, Dinan labor, etc....You will pass 15k easy....wow.


Anri


No matter. I had already had my "heads" finished, and they are beautiful, a machine shop next to and recommended by Dinan.

None of this would have happened without your telephone calls. What is your preference in vino? Santa wants to send you a thanks.

Rest of story, here, goes, I also ordered a "reman' tranny, at $5600, from BMW, ag, and again, two year warranty, unlimited miles.

I am now waiting for Dinan to put it all back together and after "break-in," can enjoy what BMW intended for what MMiller at "bimmer" calls the best that BMW has ever done.
 
#18 ·
Hopefully,you checked prices on sites such as bmwpartstore and Tischer before ordering your transmission.Though BMW list is 5600. or so,I've seen much lower on these sites and having done business with both,I can vouch for their service.I purchased a factory rebuilt Getrag a few years back from a local dealer for a reasonably discounted price but since,I've had alot of experience obtaining parts from the mentioned websites for a complete rebuild of my "93 3.8.Good luck!
Vic
 
#21 ·
Will BMWag step up? S38 Engine Block

Well hello
I had reported a month ago that my dealer contacts working with Dinan had told me that BMW would build new "reman" S38 engines with 2 year warranty.
Now that BMW let 3 target dates for production and shipping come and go, with no new information in sight, I am beginning to wonder if their promise is real.
I need all of you who have contacts at "dealers" to contact them again to find out what BMWag intentions really are.
If it is not enough orders, i am prepared to "create" a market myself, such that my torn apart engine sitting on a garage floor for months can have a chance for getting back on road once again.

Thanks
Comments?
Bob
(Marin M5)
 
#22 ·
BMW Re"man" block and transmission update

Here is my experience with BMW getting an S38 E34 block that is remanufactured by BMW. It seems that after March 2011, BMW "ran out," and I was told that my "order," forced by Stevens Creek BMW in San Jose CA, finally got approved in Feb. Same for my remanufactured transmission from BMW.
So I got the block from BMW, had the heads and top end rebuilt at Dinan, and now I have close to a new engine.

So althought it took 8 months, it was well worth it. The engine runs like OEM and the sound of the S38 in this condition is so sweet.
Anyone else "out there" gotten a "reman" block from BMW since October 2011.
Here are a few pictures taken by Dinan.
Marin M5
 

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#24 ·
I don't know what this whole refurbishment project will cost but even at $15,000 (an amount mentioned in a previous post) spread over 5 or 10 years that's inexpensive quality motoring and a factory remanufactured engine as a plus.
 
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