and you haven't bought it yet.... what you waiting for!
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Mike
91 M5 Alpine White II, Silver Gray 3/90 production
17x8/17x9 M system with PS2, 20mm touring roll bar; Ground Control Coilovers; EAT Chip, CD43; bmw/nardi blackline steering wheel, 3.8 Cam Gears
08 535i / 6 speed
Space Gray; Gray; Sport/Premium/Nav
00 M5 Ti Silver; Imola/black sportiv --Sold
Engine:
Supersprint Headers, Dinan CAI kit and MAFS, Throttle Bodies, Cams, Ported heads, Exhaust, Custom dinan software, Evosport Pullies, Dinan clutch and lightened flywheel; Ignition solutions plasma coils
Suspension:
Dinan Stage 3 with front and rear Strut Tower Braces, Beastpower Sway bar brackets, Dinan Wheels with 275/285 PilotSport, X5 Thrust arm bushings, Stoptech 355mm 4 piston front, 355mm 2 piston rear brake kit, Dinan 3.45 diff
Interior/Misc:
Eurodash, updated steering wheel, Bluetooth retrofit, Sirius Retrofit, hardwired V1, Widescreen Mk4 nav, M audio retrofit, Ice Link, BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade, bmw towbar
Power is fun and all that, but after the honeymoon period is over, you want to make sure you can look at that thing every morning and feel it has some staying qualities.
If I had your dilemma, the C5 of all your options would be top of my list followed very closely by an M5.
Its a better chassis if power and handling are what you're really after.
If you do pull the trigger on the Dinan, get someone who knows how to do a true leakdown and comp test. Comp should be wet. Lots of people get it the leakdown wrong.
Take a good sniff and look at the coolant reservoir after running it and letting it cool down. A cold examination isn't as accurate as far as odor and oil film .
Power is fun and all that, but after the honeymoon period is over, you want to make sure you can look at that thing every morning and feel it has some staying qualities.
If I had your dilemma, the C5 of all your options would be top of my list followed very closely by an M5.
Its a better chassis if power and handling are what you're really after.
If you do pull the trigger on the Dinan, get someone who knows how to do a true leakdown and comp test. Comp should be wet. Lots of people get it the leakdown wrong.
Take a good sniff and look at the coolant reservoir after running it and letting it cool down. A cold examination isn't as accurate as far as odor and oil film .
Keep us posted.
I would have Dinan look it over and do both a leakdown and compression test. I figure they know what they are doing there, and might as well take advantage of the fact they are local to me. Dinan built the car in the first place.
And ya - what is most holding me back is missing the opportunity to get something a bit more radically different from my S4 like a 911 or C5. Clearly the C5 is the value leader between the two with a much more modern chassis and lots of power, but the P car is more nimble, offers more feedback, has a timeless classic good look to it, and will not really depreciate much. C5 is going to continue to drop in price the longer the C6 model years go and start to come down in value themselves.
I am not too worried about the temporary nature of the Dinan car - I know it could be a short ride, but who knows - maybe it has another 40K miles of life in there. Maybe only 20. But at 5-7K / year that is enough to give me a couple fun years of driving it. When the motor does finally go I can either rebuild it, sell the car complete w/o motor - or part it out. Trans and wheels alone would fetch $3500, Dinan stuff has to be worth $1.5K, so even at a worst case scenario of getting $5K for the car as parts - I only lost $4K on the deal. I can totally live with that for a couple years of use. I've lost $12K on my S4 in the last 1.5 years as a point of comparison there...
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'95 3.8 6speed ///M5
You wash your car like it was your firstborn child, you tend to its needs like it was your own body, you rotect it like it's your family, then you drive it like you stole it.
He sold the car to a coworker today. Oh well. I was really leaning towards getting a sports car instead.
Now I am looking at 911's, although I must admit they scare me on the maint and repair side - partially because I know nothing about them. I know a lot more about conventional water cooled engines and they don't seem all that different between a chevy, BMW, audi etc. But an oil cooled P-car. Well - dunno bout that. Neat cars and I've always wanted to own one someday tho....
I saw your thread on Rennlist. The M5 is awesome but my 1988 911 is the favorite car of any I've owned. Except for the lack of A/C, it's been as reliable as a Honda and being my daily driver, it gets plenty of action. I could sell the M5 again and likely will at some point but I would never sell the 911 unless I was replacing it with another one. I'm not trying to sell you on a 911. You have to pick the car which best meets your needs. I'm just offering the point that a properly maintained 911 is a thrill to drive and own. I hope to never be without one.
Michael
The Following User Says Thank You to mstupp For This Useful Post:
I saw your thread on Rennlist. The M5 is awesome but my 1988 911 is the favorite car of any I've owned. Except for the lack of A/C, it's been as reliable as a Honda and being my daily driver, it gets plenty of action. I could sell the M5 again and likely will at some point but I would never sell the 911 unless I was replacing it with another one. I'm not trying to sell you on a 911. You have to pick the car which best meets your needs. I'm just offering the point that a properly maintained 911 is a thrill to drive and own. I hope to never be without one.
Michael
Good input. After some introspection I have determined that a M5 or Dinan 5 is not different enough from my S4 to be interesting. I suffer from auto ADD, and the best way for me to quell that is to have a few very different cars around to drive when the mood strikes. And right now I am thinking that different needs to be something more sporting than an M5 or my S4 for that matter. 911 might be just the ticket. I am also considering getting another C5 vette (I have owned a Z06). Outside possibility is an M3. E46 seems too much like the S4. E36 is a more raw and direct car - OK, not quite like the E30 - but I like cars with power. So if I go that route I would want to put on a Dinan suspension and supercharger. But then I have $20K+ into a old M3 worth $15K at best. Where I can spend $20K on a 911 and it may well still be worth that in a few years.
If you want to seriously consider a 911, pick up the current copy of "Excellence" magazine. Bruce Anderson's monthly market update is covering 911's from 74-89. His data suggests that many of these cars have already started to appreciate in value. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the data but Bruce is a highly respected man in the Porsche world. Another good source of information for a shopper is Peter Zimmermann's "The Used 911 Story".
The only thing an S4( B5,6,7 ) have in common w/ the M5 is that they both have 4 doors.
Having owned both I feel I can somewhat qualify that statement.
The S4 is really at home in bad weather,snow, and cruising from point a to point b. It cruises at high speeds well and has decent 145+ mph stability. At times it can border on having a utilitarian feel unless you own a built Audi AAN 5 cylinder 20 valve turbo rally motor which is what my last S4 was. These are a different story altogether. Sub 450hp AWD cars can be devoid of drama and thrill and the later S4's are just so heavy that they plow at apexes when pushed , so they tend to be taken out of the category of being a driver's car.
A stock 3.6 M5 ,which is pretty much what you'll be limited to here in the US, will entertain you. The tq will pale in comparison to your S4, but it will get to 110 just as fast w/ a lot more visceral pleasure. Although the suspension is older than your S4, if fresh and well sorted ,will down right outperform it. No contest. There are lots of E34 M5's that outperform 911's at the Nurburgring. Go to e34m5.de and those bad boys do it all the time w/ video proof.
If you end up w/ a tuned M5 ( chip+Eisemann+RD intake+ Shrick 280 cams+race cats ) along w/ full suspension upgrades + big fat stickies.... you get a car that will bring you an intense amount of pleasure....I can't begin to explain it but I think most of the guys here that are long time owners can concur .
I write this fresh from yesterday's jaunt w/ my M5. As you know, I too face a choice between keeping my beast or buying a friends 993 Carrera....so I thought maybe a spirited drive would help narrow my choice.
I live in upstate New York where its almost all rural farmlands and valleys. We have our mini version of the Ring about 10 mins from my home. No traffic for the most part, winding roads that pitch as well as 1 mile straights where the corn fields are. Our only fear are the local deer..which love high end German cars and find it funny to cross into their paths.
Its amazing how this car can be pushed. For a rather large sedan , it can really dance. I have 275's in the rear and I can still manage to break them loose on hard right turns. Its the one car I've had where the throttle actually saves you every time.
I also feel that the E34 M5 chassis power to weight ratio is just right . 355hp-3700 lbs w/ a long wheelbase makes for a car that is balanced. It will make you a better driver. I find most cars I've driven have too much power for the average enthusiast to drive at or even near limit. Unless you've got a hundred or so HPDE hrs behind cars like a Z06,996,E46 M3 , less power, more suspension = more pleasure.
As far as an older 911, I had an 87 as well as an 81 SC. I agree w/ MStupp. Fun cars, pretty reliable at times,but I don't think I'd revisit those days. Even when clean, they look so dated. Its a 'tweener P car.
Not old enough to look sweet like a 69 911S,T,or E, and not as sexy as it predecesor the 964 or 993. But thats just me.
what you waiting for!
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