S38B36 problem - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums

Go Back   BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums > BMW M5, M5 Touring, M6 and Z8 Forums > E34 M5 Discussion

E34 M5 Discussion 1988-1995 Sedan and Touring


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 5th October 2008, 15:05   #1
Ferrari-Bmw
M5 Guru (>2000 posts)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Iceland// Nürburgring//Ascari
Age: 50

Garage: Alpina B10 Biturbo Ferrari Yellow

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 172
Thanked 179 Times in 135 Posts
S38B36 problem

Hello folks,,

I am restoring my M5 ((27/09 91 ))

and having trouble with my car when the the engine temp get warm as normal

the car has been standing outside for almost a year

new headgasket and so on

1) no problem starting up when cold,,,,,, very smooth idle
2) when the engine gets warm it start to get very rich ((i think)) and hesitate to rev and feels like lot of power loss

3) the watertemp sensor is ok ((been checked))
4) we get ...... misfire fault on cylinder 4 + 6 on our data log but everything is ok with the cable and spark-plug But we took not the plug to check if it get spark but changed plug from cyl 3 and 5 ,,but again get the same default
6) ignition lid is new in front of the engine
7) i have NOT unplugged the O2 sensor but that will be my next move,, but if the O2 sensor is out ,, i think the engine would not demonstrate like it does
__________________
Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson


E30 CABRIO S3 8B38
ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507

Finnish Racing advice........ if you wanna win-hire a Finn



http://alpina.123.is/pictures/
Ferrari-Bmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 19:59   #2
Tomba
Member, P500, DSC On (>600)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Netherlands

Garage: BMW E34 M5 3.6 macaoblau

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 193
Thanked 59 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari-Bmw View Post
4) we get ...... misfire fault on cylinder 4 + 6 on our data log but everything is ok with the cable and spark-plug But we took not the plug to check if it get spark but changed plug from cyl 3 and 5 ,,but again get the same default
Distributor Cap & rotor damaged? If everything else is fine it could be loss of compression or bad injectors. Did the engine run good a year ago?
__________________
To///Mba
Tomba is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2008, 21:57   #3
Ferrari-Bmw
M5 Guru (>2000 posts)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Iceland// Nürburgring//Ascari
Age: 50

Garage: Alpina B10 Biturbo Ferrari Yellow

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 172
Thanked 179 Times in 135 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomba View Post
Distributor Cap & rotor damaged? If everything else is fine it could be loss of compression or bad injectors. Did the engine run good a year ago?
new,,,,

the engine was not running good as i understood

compression ?? there is new gasket and so on the engine is driven MAX 500 km
Ferrari-Bmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2008, 10:13   #4
farrell
Moderator Emeritus
 
farrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Unit 2A, Halstead, CO92SZ, UK
Age: 47

Garage: E34 //M5 3.8 Avus blue

Sales Feedback: (4)

Thanks: 126
Thanked 206 Times in 137 Posts
Is your fault code message this.

"Misfire on cyl 4 & 6.
Final stage ingnition or feeder defective"


Do you hit an early hard rpm cut ( 2.5-3.5k rpm) wether engine is under load
& when vehicle is not moving, being revved in neutral ?

Tomba mentioned compression & injectors.
I would get a compression test first to eliminate this.

Cheers
__________________
www.darjac-racing.co.uk

Last edited by farrell; 6th October 2008 at 10:14.
farrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2008, 23:18   #5
Ferrari-Bmw
M5 Guru (>2000 posts)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Iceland// Nürburgring//Ascari
Age: 50

Garage: Alpina B10 Biturbo Ferrari Yellow

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 172
Thanked 179 Times in 135 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by farrell View Post
Is your fault code message this.

"Misfire on cyl 4 & 6.
Final stage ingnition or feeder defective"


Do you hit an early hard rpm cut ( 2.5-3.5k rpm) wether engine is under load
& when vehicle is not moving, being revved in neutral ?

Tomba mentioned compression & injectors.
I would get a compression test first to eliminate this.

Cheers
Thanks for the info
CYLINDER row 1@9 ,, 2@8.5 ,, 3@8.5 ,, 4@9.5 ,, 5@3 6@9.5

Valve dimension is +/- 30 @ ca. 20°c and counting front and back

Intake side 1) 26/29 ,, 2) 39/29,, 3) 28/28,, 4) 26/28,, 5) 24/19,, 6) 36/30


Exhaust side 1) 25/29,, 2) 26/26 ,, 3) 27/27,, 4) 26/26,, 5) 27/31,, 6) 29/34

IS there the same size of metal-plates/ring for S38 and S50 or all S engines from BMW.

Also .. is there someone who know the diameter of these plates/rings in millimeter

Could not find it in the ETK

Yes the measure on cylinder 5 and 2 is NOT good so i guess that is the main problem,, but anyway ,, i will mget the dimension as close to 30 if possible

But is it possible to use these metal plates/rings from other manufactures

Last edited by Ferrari-Bmw; 8th October 2008 at 23:21.
Ferrari-Bmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2008, 00:23   #6
davidoli
M5 Expert (>4000)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Suffolk

Garage: E34 M5 3.6 Sebring Grey

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 1,048
Thanked 656 Times in 525 Posts
Hi , I am not going to go into a long winded answer , as my wife has just gone to bed and I really should be cuddling her .

The shims (plates ) for the s38 engine are different to those of the s50b30/32 engine .

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...66&hg=11&fg=25

Some members have used volvo shims and some have used Fiat shims of the correct diameter , which I can't remember off the top of my head .

I personally use BMW shims as they are relatively cheap and are available most of the time .

If you run a search on ' valve clearances ' you should get some clear answers .

Night , night ...........
__________________
Better a day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep !

91 Sebring 3.6 | E28 UK RHD M5 | E34 UK RHD 3.8 | E34 M5 Touring | E24 M635CSi UK RHD

www.classicmdautos.co.uk

Last edited by davidoli; 9th October 2008 at 00:23.
davidoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2008, 09:14   #7
farrell
Moderator Emeritus
 
farrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Unit 2A, Halstead, CO92SZ, UK
Age: 47

Garage: E34 //M5 3.8 Avus blue

Sales Feedback: (4)

Thanks: 126
Thanked 206 Times in 137 Posts
Hello
Sorry to hear the bad news.
Tight valves affect compression but thats relative.
In the main, your engines compression values are all below 10 bar or ( 147 psi)
Your clearances as measured are not bad enough to cause the engine to be
so low across all 6 cylinders.

Rule of thumb is 10 bar min with spread of less than 0.5 bar spread across the
engines cylinders from low to high.

Carbon deposits can pack the valve seats affecting compression.
This would not account for no 5 cylinder which if true is catastrophic.

I think you have damaged valves.
Sight unseen, I think the bores ,pistons & / or compression rings in a combination, may also
at issue.

Internet diagnosis is a dangerous game.
I don't play it much these days after being burned a few yrs back.
That all said, I hope I am completely wrong in this case.

Shim diameter is 33mm.
Ford & VAG also use this size.
Many do not stock so BMW end up the reliable source.

Good luck

Last edited by farrell; 9th October 2008 at 09:18.
farrell is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to farrell For This Useful Post:
Baddie (10th October 2008), IvanDias (9th October 2008)
Old 9th October 2008, 09:15   #8
Ferrari-Bmw
M5 Guru (>2000 posts)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Iceland// Nürburgring//Ascari
Age: 50

Garage: Alpina B10 Biturbo Ferrari Yellow

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 172
Thanked 179 Times in 135 Posts
davidoli...

Thank you
Ferrari-Bmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2008, 10:20   #9
Tomba
Member, P500, DSC On (>600)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Netherlands

Garage: BMW E34 M5 3.6 macaoblau

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 193
Thanked 59 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidoli View Post

The shims (plates ) for the s38 engine are different to those of the s50b30/32 engine .
I just checked my ETK (08/2008) and all valve shims of the S38B36 meets the S38B38, S50B30, S50B32. Valve shims under 3,00mm are also equipped on S14B2*.

I know that chain and guiders on S38B38 and S50B30 are the same (just checked, also S38B36, S14, S50B32) and also the shims must be the same (read it in a technical documentation).

Or my ETK is false in someway ....
Tomba is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2008, 10:55   #10
farrell
Moderator Emeritus
 
farrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Unit 2A, Halstead, CO92SZ, UK
Age: 47

Garage: E34 //M5 3.8 Avus blue

Sales Feedback: (4)

Thanks: 126
Thanked 206 Times in 137 Posts
ETK is correct.
I use diameter 33mm shim plates in S14, S38 & S50 variants.
I use diameter 31mm in M88/3 variant.
I think David meant S54 B32 variant which uses a twiddly little shim.

Cheers
farrell is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to farrell For This Useful Post:
IvanDias (9th October 2008), Tomba (9th October 2008)
Reply

Bookmarks



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S38B36 in a e30 illjah E34 M5 Discussion 87 23rd March 2009 20:46
S38B36 problem Ferrari-Bmw E34 M5 Discussion 0 5th October 2008 14:40
WTB: S38B36/8 ELIBEEMER Parts / Other For Sale or Wanted 0 5th May 2004 03:44
S38B36 MOTOR kris Parts / Other For Sale or Wanted 3 29th April 2001 16:50
S38B36 MOTOR kris Parts / Other For Sale or Wanted 0 29th April 2001 07:18

Loading...

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:06.



Everything Copyright 2000-2008. Do not use ANYTHING from this site without written permission. All images, graphics, sound files, video files and text appearing on this web site are the exclusive property of m5board.com and are protected under international copyright laws. All images, graphics, sound files, video files and text on this site are for on-screen and on-site viewing and listening only. No part of this web site may be reproduced, copied, saved, stored, manipulated, or used in any form for personal or commercial purposes without the prior written permission of m5board.com. Use of any image or graphic as the basis for another photographic concept or illustration is a violation of the copyright. Any copyright infringement will be prosecuted to the full extent of federal and international copyright laws. M5board.com is an enthusiast board and we don't condone any dangerous activity. Our airfield events are completely safe based on years of experience, we conduct them during clear visibility with mature participants that have several years of experience with high-performance automobiles, large unobstructed run-off zones on sealed off private former military airbases and we clearly mark the braking zones. If inexperienced with high speed driving we do not recommend organizing your own event but attending a high-performance driving school. The use of the term "BMW" on this site is for reference only, and does not imply any connection between m5board.com and BMW AG or BMW North America.