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E34 M5 Discussion 1988-1995 Sedan and Touring

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post #1 of 19 Old 5th October 2008, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
Ferrari-Bmw
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S38B36 problem

Hello folks,,

I am restoring my M5 ((27/09 91 ))

and having trouble with my car when the the engine temp get warm as normal

the car has been standing outside for almost a year

new headgasket and so on

1) no problem starting up when cold,,,,,, very smooth idle
2) when the engine gets warm it start to get very rich ((i think)) and hesitate to rev and feels like lot of power loss

3) the watertemp sensor is ok ((been checked))
4) we get ...... misfire fault on cylinder 4 + 6 on our data log but everything is ok with the cable and spark-plug But we took not the plug to check if it get spark but changed plug from cyl 3 and 5 ,,but again get the same default
6) ignition lid is new in front of the engine
7) i have NOT unplugged the O2 sensor but that will be my next move,, but if the O2 sensor is out ,, i think the engine would not demonstrate like it does

Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

E30 CABRIO V12 M70B50 ///
ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507
E34 550 V12 JML

http://alpina.123.is/pictures/
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post #2 of 19 Old 5th October 2008, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari-Bmw View Post
4) we get ...... misfire fault on cylinder 4 + 6 on our data log but everything is ok with the cable and spark-plug But we took not the plug to check if it get spark but changed plug from cyl 3 and 5 ,,but again get the same default
Distributor Cap & rotor damaged? If everything else is fine it could be loss of compression or bad injectors. Did the engine run good a year ago?

To///Mba
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post #3 of 19 Old 5th October 2008, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomba View Post
Distributor Cap & rotor damaged? If everything else is fine it could be loss of compression or bad injectors. Did the engine run good a year ago?
new,,,,

the engine was not running good as i understood

compression ?? there is new gasket and so on the engine is driven MAX 500 km

Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

E30 CABRIO V12 M70B50 ///
ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507
E34 550 V12 JML

http://alpina.123.is/pictures/
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post #4 of 19 Old 6th October 2008, 10:13 AM
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Is your fault code message this.

"Misfire on cyl 4 & 6.
Final stage ingnition or feeder defective"


Do you hit an early hard rpm cut ( 2.5-3.5k rpm) wether engine is under load
& when vehicle is not moving, being revved in neutral ?

Tomba mentioned compression & injectors.
I would get a compression test first to eliminate this.

Cheers

Last edited by farrell; 6th October 2008 at 10:14 AM.
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post #5 of 19 Old 8th October 2008, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farrell View Post
Is your fault code message this.

"Misfire on cyl 4 & 6.
Final stage ingnition or feeder defective"


Do you hit an early hard rpm cut ( 2.5-3.5k rpm) wether engine is under load
& when vehicle is not moving, being revved in neutral ?

Tomba mentioned compression & injectors.
I would get a compression test first to eliminate this.

Cheers
Thanks for the info
CYLINDER row 1@9 ,, 2@8.5 ,, 3@8.5 ,, 4@9.5 ,, 5@3 6@9.5

Valve dimension is +/- 30 @ ca. 20°c and counting front and back

Intake side 1) 26/29 ,, 2) 39/29,, 3) 28/28,, 4) 26/28,, 5) 24/19,, 6) 36/30


Exhaust side 1) 25/29,, 2) 26/26 ,, 3) 27/27,, 4) 26/26,, 5) 27/31,, 6) 29/34

IS there the same size of metal-plates/ring for S38 and S50 or all S engines from BMW.

Also .. is there someone who know the diameter of these plates/rings in millimeter

Could not find it in the ETK

Yes the measure on cylinder 5 and 2 is NOT good so i guess that is the main problem,, but anyway ,, i will mget the dimension as close to 30 if possible

But is it possible to use these metal plates/rings from other manufactures

Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

E30 CABRIO V12 M70B50 ///
ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507
E34 550 V12 JML

http://alpina.123.is/pictures/

Last edited by Ferrari-Bmw; 8th October 2008 at 11:21 PM.
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post #6 of 19 Old 9th October 2008, 12:23 AM
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Hi , I am not going to go into a long winded answer , as my wife has just gone to bed and I really should be cuddling her .

The shims (plates ) for the s38 engine are different to those of the s50b30/32 engine .

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...66&hg=11&fg=25

Some members have used volvo shims and some have used Fiat shims of the correct diameter , which I can't remember off the top of my head .

I personally use BMW shims as they are relatively cheap and are available most of the time .

If you run a search on ' valve clearances ' you should get some clear answers .

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Last edited by davidoli; 9th October 2008 at 12:23 AM.
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post #7 of 19 Old 9th October 2008, 09:14 AM
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Hello
Sorry to hear the bad news.
Tight valves affect compression but thats relative.
In the main, your engines compression values are all below 10 bar or ( 147 psi)
Your clearances as measured are not bad enough to cause the engine to be
so low across all 6 cylinders.

Rule of thumb is 10 bar min with spread of less than 0.5 bar spread across the
engines cylinders from low to high.

Carbon deposits can pack the valve seats affecting compression.
This would not account for no 5 cylinder which if true is catastrophic.

I think you have damaged valves.
Sight unseen, I think the bores ,pistons & / or compression rings in a combination, may also
at issue.

Internet diagnosis is a dangerous game.
I don't play it much these days after being burned a few yrs back.
That all said, I hope I am completely wrong in this case.

Shim diameter is 33mm.
Ford & VAG also use this size.
Many do not stock so BMW end up the reliable source.

Good luck

Last edited by farrell; 9th October 2008 at 09:18 AM.
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post #8 of 19 Old 9th October 2008, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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davidoli...

Thank you

Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

E30 CABRIO V12 M70B50 ///
ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507
E34 550 V12 JML

http://alpina.123.is/pictures/
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post #9 of 19 Old 9th October 2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidoli View Post

The shims (plates ) for the s38 engine are different to those of the s50b30/32 engine .
I just checked my ETK (08/2008) and all valve shims of the S38B36 meets the S38B38, S50B30, S50B32. Valve shims under 3,00mm are also equipped on S14B2*.

I know that chain and guiders on S38B38 and S50B30 are the same (just checked, also S38B36, S14, S50B32) and also the shims must be the same (read it in a technical documentation).

Or my ETK is false in someway ....

To///Mba
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post #10 of 19 Old 9th October 2008, 10:55 AM
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ETK is correct.
I use diameter 33mm shim plates in S14, S38 & S50 variants.
I use diameter 31mm in M88/3 variant.
I think David meant S54 B32 variant which uses a twiddly little shim.

Cheers
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